From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 233 Date: 6/14/2005 9:00:23 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. LETS GO FLY! (IFLYKRS@aol.com) 2. vinyl ester resin (Joe Beyer) 3. Posa Problems (Joe Beyer) 4. RE: Air inlet (Al Hawkins) 5. Re: Phil Matheson - Do not archive (Phil Spurr) 6. Re: vinyl ester resin (Dan Heath) 7. 3 hours today, 4 to go... (Ryan) 8. LETS GO FLY! (Ryan) 9. Re: 3 hours today, 4 to go... (Mark Langford) 10. 3 hours today, 4 to go... (Oscar Zuniga) 11. Re: 3 hours today, 4 to go... (Ryan) 12. N886MJ Update (Mark Jones) 13. Re: 3 hours today, 4 to go... (Mark Langford) 14. Question for Mark L (Ron Smith) 15. Re: Question for Mark L (Mark Langford) 16. pitch change/ flaps/ speed brake (larry flesner) 17. Re: Question for Mark L (Orma) 18. Re: 3 hours today, 4 to go... (paulwasp@webtv.net) 19. Re: LETS GO FLY! (Dean Cooper) 20. Check List (Mark Jones) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 00:08:01 EDT From: IFLYKRS@aol.com Subject: KR> LETS GO FLY! To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Well, after a week of bad weather I finally got to go up and just fly around for an hour or so. I got to try out a NEW Sensnich 54X54 prop. A beautiful prop to say the least. Takeoff roll was shorter than normal and the climb performance was real good. Static was 3100 and climb out was 3200 at 100mph. 25" MAP /3300/ cruise at 3500' 80'temp gave me an average of 160 mph. Full power 3500 rpm at same altitude gave me about 178 mph. It may be a little bit slower than my Prince prop but it ran smoother. The speed may come up since I didnt have a spinner on the plane for the test. I will do a bit more testing to get hard numbers for all you folks but this appears to be a real good prop for the KR and the speeds we run with the Corvair engine. Still having fun - way to go MARK! Bill and N41768 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:00:54 -0700 From: "Joe Beyer" Subject: KR> vinyl ester resin To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 06:07:36 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Who sells Vinyl Ester? To: Message-ID: <42AD5AE8.00002E.02448@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >I want to find a vendor who sells in small quantities, if possible. Try this. It's in Bingen Washington, across from Hood River Oregon. -Joe http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/product_catalog.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:12:13 -0700 From: "Joe Beyer" Subject: KR> Posa Problems To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:54:49 -0700 From: "Lee Van Dyke" Subject: KR> Air inlet To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00ee01c57049$5fd53920$6501a8c0@SNAKEBITE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >Does anybody think that once I got up to speed 90-100, a pressure or/ >low pressure situation could have occured in the lower >cowl, causing the flow of air to the carb to have effected that mixture? I had a power loss with my Posa due to ram air increasing the manifold preasure. When I pulled the power back slightly the engine picked up. I now have a stop in place on the throttle so the slide never opens up all of the way. -Joe ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:58:28 -0700 From: "Al Hawkins" Subject: RE: KR> Air inlet To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c570a6$16ec15a0$6702a8c0@mycomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Lee The carb requires a cold air source, you are using heated air in your cowl, this will cause the mixture to richen up. When you run the engine with the cowl off the carb is getting cool air. Before I sealed my cold air source to the carb the carb inlet temp was running 145 F. Yours will be even higher if no cold air is getting to the carb. Al Hawkins KR2 C-GDPU Port Coquitlam, B.C. Canada -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Lee Van Dyke Sent: June 13, 2005 11:55 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Air inlet Netters, Thank you for the many responses re: my first flight. Yes a little scarry, but yes I did remain calm. As I was driving to the cruise ship, an idea came to me re: the inlet of air into the carb. First I have a POSA carb (yes I know I know) I runs great on the ground, low and high speed. The high speed RPMs could be higher. I was thinking this was caused by static forces. Now back to the problem, I have a gap of about 1" 1 1/2" from the cowl to the inlet of the carb. Does anybody think that once I got up to speed 90-100, a pressure or/ low pressure situation could have occured in the lower cowl, causing the flow of air to the carb to have effected that mixture? The motor never quit, but started to run really rugh and an incredible amount of power loss. Lee Van Dyke Mesa AZ Lee@vandyke5.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:22:13 +0100 From: Phil Spurr Subject: KR> Re: Phil Matheson - Do not archive To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20050614101648.058085d8@mail.btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Phil Matheson has asked me to let KRnetters in Europe know that he can be contacted on a new mobile number, 07985968592, while he his here in the UK. Anyone trying to contact him and having problems, please email me off-net and I'll try to relay it to him. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 05:44:10 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> vinyl ester resin To: Message-ID: <42AEA6EA.000007.03564@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Joe, What a cool place for resin and cloth. The rest of you guys should take a look at this site. Thanks for the info. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- Try this. It's in Bingen Washington, across from Hood River Oregon. -Joe http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/product_catalog.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 06:21:33 -0700 From: "Ryan" Subject: KR> 3 hours today, 4 to go... To: Message-ID: <004401c570e3$fc5bf820$8cdb4a42@san.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark, Have you flown with the added test weight of a passenger yet? Ryan > Message: 13 > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:26:47 -0500 > From: "Mark Langford" > Subject: KR> 3 hours today, 4 to go... > To: "KRnet" > Message-ID: <01ab01c57090$ed0c3950$1202a8c0@1700xp> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > NetHeads, > > Today I flew for 3 more hours. Mostly I just did "slow flight", > playing with GPS courses, and averaging about 120 mph at 2200 rpm. I stayed up for 3 hours, and landed with half a header tank, about 4 gallons. That means I burned about 4 gallons an hour at 120 mph, but that's with the nose stuck up in the air, so it wasn't exactly trimmed for best cruise. The best thing about today's flight is that I actually KNEW how much fuel I had in the header tank at any given time. My VDO sender finally cleaned itself off (thanks to the mechanical wiping of several thousand jolts of the float) and is working perfectly! It worked when I installed it, but after the vinyl ester cured in the tank, I think the windings had a non-conductive film on it. I sure am relieved that I don't have to dig into that tank! You just don't know how nice it is to have a working fuel gauge again. > > Today was an exception in that I only made exactly one landing, and it > was the smoothest yet, even after three hours of flying. I'll bet the g-meter is still reading 1.0. If I hadn't heard the tires chrip, I'd have never known I was down. And it was another one after dark, so it was really smooth air. > > One thing I've noticed is that I never use any down trim...it's always > up trim, especially when the flaps are down. My guess is that wheel pants will help remedy that, because that drag hanging way down below the thrust line is going to rotate the plane downward, requiring more up trim than I have to offer. I need to work on wheel pants. If that's not it, I still have the secret weapon, adjustable horizontal stab, but I'll wait until everything else is faired in before I consider wheelin' that one out. > > Another thing I'm thinking about is the possibility that my CG could > stand to slide back some. The farther back, the faster it's going to be, but the more "sensitive". Right now it is far from sensitive. I spent the day doing stuff like leaning left to go left, right to go right. Even a phugoid or two, I think they're called. It's a very stable airplane, maybe even too stable! And the forward CG could account for the up trim as well. I'm going to fly with it like it is for a while longer, but then gradually slide it back with either the battery or some more fuel, or both. > > The weather is supposed to be just as nice for several days, so if I > do 2 hours tomorrow and 2 hours the next day, I'm good to go wherever I want, and carry passengers... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 06:37:48 -0700 From: "Ryan" Subject: KR> LETS GO FLY! To: Message-ID: <004d01c570e6$41196720$8cdb4a42@san.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bill, Is this due to the new prop? Ryan ------------------------- / cruise at 3500' 80'temp gave me an average of 160 mph. Full power 3500 rpm at same altitude gave me about 178 mph. ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:43:46 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> 3 hours today, 4 to go... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <007601c570e7$16b38ff0$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Ryan wrote: > Have you flown with the added test weight of a passenger yet? Well, part of the "40 hour restriction" is that you can't go out of a certain radius from your home airport (usually 25 miles, but 40 in my case) and you can't carry passengers. I expect to be done with that before the day is over though... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:50:22 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> 3 hours today, 4 to go... To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mark; I think what was being asked was, have you ridden with some ballast in the passenger seat, not have you had a passenger in that seat. Couple of sacks of sand, or sack-crete, or something you can secure with the seat belt, just adding weight till you get something significant there. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 06:52:49 -0700 From: "Ryan" Subject: Re: KR> 3 hours today, 4 to go... To: Message-ID: <005601c570e8$5a5d1360$8cdb4a42@san.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark, I said "test weight". that should be part of the flight envelope expansion testing. Ryan --------------------- Re: KR> 3 hours today, 4 to go... a.. From: Mark Langford (view other messages by this author) b.. Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 06:46:51 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ryan wrote: > Have you flown with the added test weight of a passenger yet? Well, part of the "40 hour restriction" is that you can't go out of a certain radius from your home airport (usually 25 miles, but 40 in my case) and you can't carry passengers. I expect to be done with that before the day is over though... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:05:54 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> N886MJ Update To: "KR Net \(E-mail\)" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C423E@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have not given an update in a couple of weeks. My last flight was June 4th and after I returned to the airport, I removed my air box, carburetor and carb to intake mount. The carb to intake pipe was designed for the EFS-2 and was made from 1 1/2 OD tubing. The EFS-3 has a much larger throat so the new intake tubing is now 2" OD. The previous one was restricting air flow from the carb to the intakes. The old one was made from steel tube, the new one is from 6061 aluminum and weighs about 1/3 of what it used to. Also, I installed a port for the newly installed manifold pressure gauge. The air box I had was insufficient for the larger EFS-3 carb plus I was sucking air from inside the cowl. The new box I am making is similar to Marl Langford's design. I am also having to modify the bottom of my cowl to make room for the new air box since the cowl was too tight for it to fit in. Hopefully, everything will be done by this weekend so I can get back in the air and report on my improved performance, at least I hope it will be improved. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:28:19 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> 3 hours today, 4 to go... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008401c570ed$4fdbc490$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Ryan wrote: > I said "test weight". that should be part of the flight envelope > expansion > testing. Oh, sorry. Of course I have. Full gross of 1200 pounds. It really didn't seem to make much difference, but I don't have a "lot" of experience with full gross yet. That'll be coming soon. Get ready, Phillabaum... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:10:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Ron Smith Subject: KR> Question for Mark L To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050614181022.37291.qmail@web81706.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Have you tried climbing with flaps fully extended? Mark Jones belly board incident got me thinking about the size of the flaps I will build. I was planning on building the same flaps you did and also having flaps in the stub section. I'm wondering if that might be too much, in a flap extended, stuck condition. Any reading that I might do on that? BTW, can you write a little about your flap preformance? Approach speeds, deployment speeds, etc? Ron Smith, kr2s, boat stage, Cypress Ca, U.S. Nice job Mark. ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:44:39 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Question for Mark L To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00ae01c57111$1f252d40$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Ron Smith wrote: > Have you tried climbing with flaps fully extended? Yep, I did the same thing. Climbed right out, flew downwind, got ready to put the flaps down, and they were already down! That either means my flaps don't drag as much as Mark Jones' bellyboard (probably true) or that I have more power than Mark does (I know that's true!). I need an indicator too, although I can actually see the flap position by the bellcrank that I can see right down next to the stick. > I was planning on building the same flaps you did and > also having flaps in the stub section. I'm wondering > if that might be too much, in a flap extended, stuck condition. I don't think mine are too big, or too small, really. There's a serious pitch change when I deploy them even though though only operate over a 30 degree range at this point (mainly due to real estate considerations under my seat). Stall speed is reduced by 5 mph right now, but I won't swear that I know what that number is right now (55 indicated without flaps, 50 with flaps) as my static system is always changing and I haven't checked stall speed lately. > Any reading that I might do on that? Tea leaves? > BTW, can you write a little about your flap > preformance? Approach speeds, deployment speeds, etc? I think they work fine, but then I've never tried Larry's or Mark J's either. I may be missing the boat, for all I know. I slow the plane down to 110 mph by the time I'm downwind and abeam the end of the runway, then drop the rpm to 1650 or so and let it start descending. I'm probably doing about 90 when I turn base, 80 when I turn final, and hold it at about 70 all the way down to flare. When it actually touches down, I might be doing 60, but I'm not looking at the ASI, so I could be wrong. I know I can deploy my flaps at 120, but I try not to do it above 100 mph. I'm fairly amazed that they were strong enough for 120, but I accidently tested them to that speed, not realizing they were down while I accelerated after a stall test. I've started a list of performance observations and things I'd do differently at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/first_flights/subsequent.html ... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:29:09 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> pitch change/ flaps/ speed brake To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050614192909.007f2c80@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I don't think mine are too big, or too small, really. There's a >serious >pitch change when I deploy them even though though only operate over a 30 >degree range at this point (mainly due to real estate considerations under >my seat). >Mark Langford ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= Mark, I'll go out on a limb here and let the experts correct me if I'm wrong. I think your pitch change comes from the center of lift moving on the wing as the flaps are deployed. I would guess the "serious pitch change" you mentioned speaks to their effectiveness. If your rate of decent increases while holding the same airspeed and power setting then you're adding drag as well as lift. You might try some flight testing to see if a small flap deflection shortens your takeoff roll and helps your climb at best angle. Have you considered rigging the flaps for negative deflection at cruise to pick up a few mph? I get a nose down pitch movement on my KR when I lower the speed brake but for other reasons entirely. ( I'm guessing) that there is a pressure build up in front of the brake when lowered that is applied to the bottom side of the fuselage and it being behind the center of lift would cause a nose down pitch. That and (again, I'm guessing) that the downward deflection of the air at the brake would contribute to the nose down pitch also. And (I'm guessing again) the drag forces being applied below and behind the C.G and C.L would cause the drag forces to align with the C.G., similar to the feathers on an arrow. Or, maybe I've just spent too much time at altitude without oxygen !! I suppose if we really wanted to know we could hook up several altimeters and place the tubes at several different points and measure the pressure differences. But hey, I have wheel pants to install, trim to apply, flying to do, :-) .............................. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:29:39 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> Question for Mark L To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00fe01c57149$b3f16460$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original "Yep, I did the same thing." Hello Net I have also made the same mistake in my case it was a touch and go and I failed to raise the flap. My climb was a lot slower then usual so much so that I realized that there was extra drag. The rate of climb seemed normal. I have used my flap to increase the angle of climb by selecting only the first notch of flap stop bracket. In that instance I could tell the climb was better, but it was only like a day with more wind down the runway. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:14:49 -0400 From: paulwasp@webtv.net Subject: Re: KR> 3 hours today, 4 to go... To: krnet@mylist.net (KRnet) Message-ID: <10999-42AF8F19-3831@storefull-3237.bay.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi; Nice going, Mark! I'm following your progress with bated breath! As I'm sure other netters are also. Paul KR2s.... working on pitot and instrument systens, brakes also. Erie, PA ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:26:20 -0400 From: "Dean Cooper" Subject: Re: KR> LETS GO FLY! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008401c57151$9dc01cb0$6101a8c0@HOMEOFFICE> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Bill wrote:" > Well, after a week of bad weather I finally got to go up and just fly > around for an hour or so Bill, Are you flying behind the new "601" cowling, yet? Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL USA Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net See Corvair powered KR Project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:32:38 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> Check List To: "KR Net" Message-ID: <002901c57152$7f5d3900$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Recently there were folks asking for a good check list for pre-airworthiness inspection. This is a great check list to use prior to your inspection to make sure you are ready' http://aea.faa.gov/aea200/ea01/Checklist.htm Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj e-mail: flykr2s@wi.rr.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 233 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================