From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 239 Date: 6/18/2005 9:00:21 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Where to Start? (joseph) 2. Re: Where to Start? (Orma) 3. where to start (joseph) 4. Re: where to start (Barry Kruyssen) 5. Re: painting WAFs. (Peter Drake) 6. Re: Where to Start? (Dan Heath) 7. Re: painting WAFs. (Mark Langford) 8. Working hard and getting nowhere (Dan Heath) 9. Re: Working hard and getting nowhere (Mark Langford) 10. Re: Working hard and getting nowhere (JIM VANCE) 11. Re: Working hard and getting nowhere (Mark Jones) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:39:18 -0700 From: "joseph" Subject: KR> Where to Start? To: Message-ID: <000001c573c8$1237fe00$640fa8c0@Dell> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all. I'm new to the KR world, and find all of the information very helpful. I do however have a question that I am hoping someone could help me with. I want to build a plane because I enjoy all aspects of building ANYTHING. Here in lies the question I have never flown a day in my life, and would of course take lessons, would this be a good plane to own as a first for a novice pilot? I do understand that building this plane is not an overnight thing so I would have time to hone my flying skills. Any advice you may have to offer would be very helpful. Thanks again for all of the great information. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 02:18:05 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> Where to Start? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <021001c573cd$7e093630$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Welcome Joseph It is likely that you will receive a lot of opinion on the subject. It is always good to look at what has been said in the past. So, a good place to start is with the archives. The link is at the bottom of all KR posts. Now for my opinion. The cost of building a KR and the commitment in time make this a very serious undertaking. Likewise the cost of learning to fly both a basic trainer and the extra skills that you may need to acquire to learn to handle a quick and perhaps very responsive handling plane like the KR is equally as costly in time and money. As long as you accept both of these as part of the process, then the short answer is YES. I first flew my KR with only 60 total hours of flight time. Orma L. Robbins Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:30:13 -0700 From: "joseph" Subject: KR> where to start To: Message-ID: <000001c573cf$2f09c0c0$640fa8c0@Dell> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have given serious to the time and expense, and I do have the time and the patience to take on this project. I have checked into flight training, and if I bought a plane, or build my own it I still have got to be a licensed pilot so that cost will still be there, but the satisfaction would not. Thanks for your input, It makes me feel better to know I am not spinning my wheels by chasing a plane I could never fly. Joseph J. Jensen ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 18:46:15 +1000 From: "Barry Kruyssen" Subject: Re: KR> where to start To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <07fe01c573e2$31b0f150$5600a8c0@technologyonecorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Joseph, I agree with Orma, You have to stages of training, basic flight training and then the EXTRA skills to fly something that is quick and very responsive. If you can find the right instructor you could even do the extra stuff in your own aircraft, maybe :-) (someone might want to comment if that is possible where your are) I flew my KR2 with 18 hours of power time but I did have 200+ hours of glider time. I would sugest getting some glider time because it will enhance your skill level and give you a different out look on flying (and it is FUN). regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia RAA 19-3873 kr2@BigPond.com http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: joseph I have given serious to the time and expense, and I do have the time and the patience to take on this project. I have checked into flight training, and if I bought a plane, or build my own it I still have got to be a licensed pilot so that cost will still be there, but the satisfaction would not. Thanks for your input, It makes me feel better to know I am not spinning my wheels by chasing a plane I could never fly. Joseph J. Jensen ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:03:01 +0100 From: "Peter Drake" Subject: Re: KR> painting WAFs. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000601c573ec$ea3d2900$0200a8c0@PETER> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Harold It was me who was asking about painting/rust proofing WAFs. That epoxy sounds interesting, I dont know whether we can get it in the UK. However I have discovered since that the requirement here is that I have them Cadmium plated first then epoxy primed or powdercoated. In fact someone told me that the RR ones come powder coated. I have found a company near Cardiff (Wales UK) who does cadmium plating to British defence standard - That'll do me! I will then probably epoxy prime them and finish with something like Hammerite which I think is similar to your Tremclad. Thanks for your input Peter Drake ----- Original Message ----- From: "haroldwoods" To: Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:04 PM Subject: KR> painting WAFs. > Hi Netters, > Some one recently asked about painting WAFs. If you go and talk to > your > local auto body repair shop you can ask them how they prepare metal for > painting. My local painter said that he now used " Green Epoxy Primer". He > thinks that it is the best thing that has happened in years. I bought a > can (very expensive), it works like a charm. Be sure that the metal is > free of oil &/ grease.Use a small syringe to measure out 5 or 10 ml of > epoxy and in my case an equal volume of hardener. It is very fluid, It > contains a solvent that rapidly evaporates, the epoxy cures in about an > hour. If there is any left in the mixture give the metal a second coat. > After the primer has cured (next day) , paint it with your favorite paint. > I use a rust proof enamel paint called Tremclad. It is a good rust proof > paint even without a primer. I can be applied to a rusty surface provided > there is no oil or grease on it. Tremclad now make a clear coat for their > paint. You must wait for 3 days before applying it over fresh Tremclad > Paint.. It costs about $10.00 Canadian per litre at Wal-Mart. I did the > bottom on my KR with a white glossy Tremclad and will follow with the > clear coat. I applied the white last year. It is still bright and shiny > but I will clear coat it. I intend to paint the entire plane in it. Weep > you Netters over the cost of my paint job. > Regards > Harold Woods > Orillia, ON. Canada. > haroldwoods@rogers.com > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > --- > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 17/06/2005 > > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 06:09:07 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Where to Start? To: Message-ID: <42B3F2C3.000001.01168@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I got into flying because a friend gave me a magazine with an article about a fantastic new home built airplane. It was a Long EZ. I really got pumped up about the idea of building one and was discussing it with someone at work His father was a ground school instructor, so he knew something about flying and his response to me was, "Don't you think that you should learn to fly, first.". I had not even thought about that, but, of course, he was right. So, I started ground school and the rest followed. Well, I never built the Long EZ because I found this other little airplane that seemed even more cool. So I bought a partially finished KR that was advertised as 90% complete. With six more years of building, I finally got to fly it and at that time I had 152.8 total hours of mostly Cessna 150 time. I had a difficult time learning to land it with the little guppy retract gear that it had on it then. Before I finished flying off the hours, it was converted to a fixed conventional gear with a very good tail wheel, and the landings became much easier. I really think that if it had been the training wheel" version, that I would have had absolutely no problem at all with the plane, with no additional training. Also, today, you can get a lot more information about how to do it right the first time, right here on the KRNet, which will make it easier. Some time like Mark Langford recently received from Bill Clapp, would have been all that was needed to make it an easy transition as the KR really is an easy airplane to fly. Now, I can't wait to get finished with this one and do it again. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- I have never flown a day in my life, would this be a good plane to own as a first for a novice pilot? ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 09:43:35 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> painting WAFs. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <0aab01c57414$1b9402e0$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Peter Drake wrote: > In fact someone told me that > the RR ones come powder coated. To my knowlege, RR fittings are plated with something that looks like cad. The only powder coated WAFs that I know of were made by TET. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 20:35:28 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Working hard and getting nowhere To: Message-ID: <42B4BDD0.000006.02132@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have been fighting this problem for over three weeks now, so I am throwing it out to you Netters just in case someone knows how to debug this thing. We have an Oil Pressure (OP) and an Oil Temp (OT) gauge. The gauges have three lugs, sender, ground, and +12V. The OT sender is a brass lug that screws into the oil sump and the OP sender is one of those almost bell shaped cans. They both have lugs on the end of them where the sender wires are attached. From the lug to ground, they both measure a little resistance I am getting no reading on either of the gauges. Today, I took out the oil sender and put it in boiling water and the resistance measuring from sender lug to ground, moved toward zero. I heated it a little more with the torch and it went farther toward zero. This tells me that the OT sender is sending a signal. How can I test the OP sender and how can I test the gauges? I have taken voltage readings at the gauges and they read +12 between the sender and +12 and strangely between +12 and +12. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 20:06:25 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Working hard and getting nowhere To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <0ae501c5746b$1dc4b300$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dan Heath wrote: > How can I test the OP sender and how can I test the gauges? The first thing I'd be tempted to do is set up a complete system test. Remove the gauges and hook them to a battery and ground the body of the sender, connect the sender wire, and then throw the temp sender in boiling water and see what it reads. Grounding the sender wire should make it either go full scale or to zero, and disconnecting it should make it go full scale one way or the other. Same deal for the pressure sender, but use your air compressor to pressurize a fitting that the sender is screwed into. Disconnect and/or grounding the sender should make it read full scale, one way or the other, so that's an easy test without even removing them from the panel. Maybe you've already tested them that way though. If they were VDO gauges (or Mitchell) the directions should tell you the resistance range for each sender. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 20:16:40 -0500 From: "JIM VANCE" Subject: Re: KR> Working hard and getting nowhere To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002601c5746c$913fe1a0$0600a8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dan, Are you grounding the minus connection to the engine and the minus on the gauges to a different place? I had weird readings until I ran a ground wire from the sensors to the gauges. Then life was wonderful. The voltages involved are minuscule. If you are using the engine-to-panel ground, you will have all sorts of voltage drops from other components getting involved. Jim Vance Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 7:35 PM Subject: KR> Working hard and getting nowhere > I have been fighting this problem for over three weeks now, so I am throwing > it out to you Netters just in case someone knows how to debug this > thing. We have an Oil Pressure (OP) and an Oil Temp (OT) gauge. The > gauges have three lugs, sender, ground, and +12V. The OT sender is a > brass lug that screws into the oil sump and the OP sender is one of > those almost bell shaped cans. They both have lugs on the end of them > where the sender wires > are attached. From the lug to ground, they both measure a little resistance > I am getting no reading on either of the gauges. > > Today, I took out the oil sender and put it in boiling water and the > resistance measuring from sender lug to ground, moved toward zero. I heated > it a little more with the torch and it went farther toward zero. This tells > me that the OT sender is sending a signal. > > How can I test the OP sender and how can I test the gauges? I have taken > voltage readings at the gauges and they read +12 between the sender > and +12 > and strangely between +12 and +12. > > > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a > time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building > has expired. > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 21:35:37 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Working hard and getting nowhere To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006401c57477$940960e0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dan, I actually sent back one of the OP senders to Wicks because I thought it was bad. My original sender had only one lug on it and the body of the sender grounded itself to the engine block. I broke the lug when I had to remove the OP sender and I ordered a new one from Wicks. The new one came with two lugs on top. Hmmmm, Like you I tried everything and could not get a gauge reading. I called Wicks customer service and they said to send it back. Wicks shipped out a new one the very same day. I installed the new one and still no reading, I tried everything and finally called the manufacturer. I had it wired wrong. The body on a two lug OP sender does not self ground like the single lug did. It does not matter which lug you use for ground but one lug must be grounded to a common engine ground point. The other lug goes to your positive terminal on the gauge. You must then connect the gauge 12v terminal to your positive fuse box or buss bar. The negative terminal on the gauge must also go to a common ground point. Once I wired mine correctly, it has worked perfectly ever since. The same wiring arrangement applies to your OT gauge too. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj e-mail: flykr2s@wi.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 7:35 PM Subject: KR> Working hard and getting nowhere > I have been fighting this problem for over three weeks now, so I am throwing > it out to you Netters just in case someone knows how to debug this > thing. We have an Oil Pressure (OP) and an Oil Temp (OT) gauge. The > gauges have three lugs, sender, ground, and +12V. The OT sender is a > brass lug that screws into the oil sump and the OP sender is one of > those almost bell shaped cans. They both have lugs on the end of them > where the sender wires > are attached. From the lug to ground, they both measure a little resistance > I am getting no reading on either of the gauges. > > Today, I took out the oil sender and put it in boiling water and the > resistance measuring from sender lug to ground, moved toward zero. I heated > it a little more with the torch and it went farther toward zero. This tells > me that the OT sender is sending a signal. > > How can I test the OP sender and how can I test the gauges? I have taken > voltage readings at the gauges and they read +12 between the sender > and +12 > and strangely between +12 and +12. > > > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a > time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building > has expired. > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 239 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================