From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 243 Date: 6/21/2005 4:20:26 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Windmilling/Starters (Golden, Kevin) 2. Detonation as crank failure cause? (Mark Jones) 3. WAF Bolt Type (JSMONDAY@aol.com) 4. Diehl Main Gear (JSMONDAY@aol.com) 5. RE: WAF Bolt Type (Mark Jones) 6. R?f. : KR> WAF Bolt Type (Serge VIDAL) 7. RE: Diehl Main Gear (Mark Jones) 8. RE: R?f. : KR> WAF Bolt Type (Mark Jones) 9. Re: Detonation as crank failure cause? (Jeff Scott) 10. RE: Réf. : KR> WAF Bolt Type (Jeff Scott) 11. R?f. : RE: R?f. : KR> WAF Bolt Type (Serge VIDAL) 12. primer for metals such as the WAFs. (haroldwoods) 13. primer for metals such as the WAFs. (Oscar Zuniga) 14. Turtle deck (wilder_jeff Wilder) 15. Windmilling Prop for Steeper Glide slope with Compression release valve? (flyKRS@netscape.net) 16. Finally a Pilot again (Dan Heath) 17. Re: Detonation as crank failure cause? (Martindale Family) 18. For Sale - KR Tri-Gear Exhaust (4 into 1) and KR 5 Point Mount: for KR2 or KR2S (birko@sbcglobal.net) 19. Re: Turtle deck (patrusso) 20. Re: Windmilling Prop for Steeper Glide slope with Compressionrelease valve? (Bob Glidden) 21. Re: For Sale - KR Tri-Gear Exhaust (4 into 1) and KR 5 Point Mount:for KR2 or KR2S (phil brookman) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 06:39:30 -0400 From: "Golden, Kevin" Subject: KR> Windmilling/Starters To: 'KRnet' Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain I have never been so lucky to fly anything but worn out certified engines I guess. Anything I have ever flown would windmill (not counting 2 stroke ultralights here). Now maybe if I was flying a cassut with a high compression racing engine running a cut down fan...... Even my Tr2 with the 0235 upgrade to 115 HP windmills. It has always been accepted that VWs don't windmill well. Compression versus prop size/pitch will dictate the ability to do so. Most all just live with it. There have been a LOT of VW powered airplanes designed and do well. This may seem off the wall, but has anyone seen a recoil starter built for a small VW conversion? Something like a Briggs and Stratton or Rotax recoil adapted to the rear of the engine and run inside so that the engine could be started like an ultralight airplane? I know....goofball. Still, don't know why it wouldn't work. The old Aeronca airplanes had a sort of system like this. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: Ron Freiberger [mailto:ronandmartha@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 10:03 PM To: 'KRnet' Subject: RE: Re: KR> Windmilling Gav said, "It works with Lycos and Continentals why wouldn't it work with a VW????" It works with old, tired Lycomings and Continentals. With a tight engine, probably never. However, a touch of the starter ( if you have one) will bring it to high rpms quickly in a well established dive. Ron Freiberger mail to ronandmartha@earthlink.net _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html *The information contained in this message may be confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is for the use of the intended addressee only. Any unauthorized use, dissemination or copying of the information in this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message.* ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:03:22 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> Detonation as crank failure cause? To: "CorvAircraft \(E-mail\)" , "KR Net \(E-mail\)" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C4279@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" No one has mentioned anything about detonation of the engine as a factor in crank failure. Detonation causes undue stresses on a crank by creating a hammer like force generated from the piston through the rods to the crank. This hammer-like shock wave being imposed on the crank causes severe overloading. Detonation can destroy an engine very quickly. How many of the crank failure engines actually were subjected to detonation. The only one who has confessed to having detonation was Mark Langford and his was a brief period on departure per his post of June 10th. Just something else to think about. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:33:35 EDT From: JSMONDAY@aol.com Subject: KR> WAF Bolt Type To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <1fb.afd5e51.2fe9712f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" On the WAF through bolts.. 3/16" AN3 etc.... what type of bolts should I get.. Cad Plated or Stainless? Drilled or undrilled? What kind of nuts if not drilled? Should you use Locktite? On my way to AS&S! Thanks, John Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:38:53 EDT From: JSMONDAY@aol.com Subject: KR> Diehl Main Gear To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <1f4.c1f155b.2fe9726d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" My spars are a little taller than stock KR2 Spars. Still has enough wood to be OK for through bolts.....but I was thinking that it might be good to put a thin plate of 4130 on the back side (actually front side nose dtragger!) of the spar from the casting to strengthen it up (size of casting). Will still use washers on the backside.as well. Any problems with that?? other than a little added weight? PS most of us probably shouldn't worry so much about our plane weight but could much easier loose 10 pounds... of course except for Mark L.! Thanks, John Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:45:40 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: KR> WAF Bolt Type To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C427D@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The standard is to use AN shank drilled with castle nuts and cotter pins. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of JSMONDAY@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:34 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> WAF Bolt Type On the WAF through bolts.. 3/16" AN3 etc.... what type of bolts should I get.. Cad Plated or Stainless? Drilled or undrilled? What kind of nuts if not drilled? Should you use Locktite? On my way to AS&S! Thanks, John Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:44:45 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : KR> WAF Bolt Type To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 1 - Cadmium plated. The Stainless Steel ones are not suitable, because they are weaker, and they induce galvanic corrosion. 2 - Undrilled. 3 - The nuts will be AN365 (Nylon locknuts) 4 - No Locktite on structural applications. Once you have torqued the bolts, you can put a strip of paint to mark, and be able to check visually in the unlikely event that you would lose the torque. Have a nice trip to ASS! Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France JSMONDAY@aol.com Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-06-21 15:33 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-06-21 15:34 Pour : krnet@mylist.net cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> WAF Bolt Type On the WAF through bolts.. 3/16" AN3 etc.... what type of bolts should I get.. Cad Plated or Stainless? Drilled or undrilled? What kind of nuts if not drilled? Should you use Locktite? On my way to AS&S! Thanks, John Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:55:45 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: KR> Diehl Main Gear To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C427E@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If your spars are not closed yet, it would be best to add a block of spruce to the bottom of the top cap and to the top of the bottom cap. These could be 1" tall x the width of the cap and beveled 45° on each end. This would give you more internal spar surface to work with. You could do it as you say but then there is the weight factor. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of JSMONDAY@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:39 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Diehl Main Gear My spars are a little taller than stock KR2 Spars. Still has enough wood to be OK for through bolts.....but I was thinking that it might be good to put a thin plate of 4130 on the back side (actually front side nose dtragger!) of the spar from the casting to strengthen it up (size of casting). Will still use washers on the backside.as well. Any problems with that?? other than a little added weight? PS most of us probably shouldn't worry so much about our plane weight but could much easier loose 10 pounds... of course except for Mark L.! Thanks, John Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:57:17 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: R?f. : KR> WAF Bolt Type To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C427F@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" That will work too. I guess it is a matter of personal preference. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Serge VIDAL Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:45 AM To: KRnet Subject: Réf. : KR> WAF Bolt Type 1 - Cadmium plated. The Stainless Steel ones are not suitable, because they are weaker, and they induce galvanic corrosion. 2 - Undrilled. 3 - The nuts will be AN365 (Nylon locknuts) 4 - No Locktite on structural applications. Once you have torqued the bolts, you can put a strip of paint to mark, and be able to check visually in the unlikely event that you would lose the torque. Have a nice trip to ASS! Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France JSMONDAY@aol.com Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-06-21 15:33 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-06-21 15:34 Pour : krnet@mylist.net cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> WAF Bolt Type On the WAF through bolts.. 3/16" AN3 etc.... what type of bolts should I get.. Cad Plated or Stainless? Drilled or undrilled? What kind of nuts if not drilled? Should you use Locktite? On my way to AS&S! Thanks, John Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:54:04 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: Re: KR> Detonation as crank failure cause? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050621.075404.1598.173981@webmail01.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain Detonation can certainly cause some bearing damage, but it would have to be quite severe and continuous to break a crank. I've torn down an engine subjected to severe and constant detonation (mistimed ignition timing due to a slipped harmonic balancer in a boat). It looked like someone had worked over the tops of the pistons with a ball peen hammer. The rod bearing damage was minimal, any damage to the mains was undecernable, and the crankshaft journals were all still within specs, although no longer perfectly round. Had it continued to run as it was, it would have pounded out the rod bearings and damaged the crank by flattening or otherwise trashing the rod journals first. Perhaps it's time to take into account the gyroscopic loads imposed by the spinning prop. The prop makes a great gyroscope out in front of the plane. Any change in direction is resisted by the gyroscopic effect of the prop and that load is transmitted as a bending moment to the prop hub. In the Corvair, there is only one small bearing in the front of the case taking that load. That bearing get's used like a fulcrum with second main countering the gyroscopic load from the prop. That works pretty well when you transmit that load through a solid shaft like aircraft engines and even the VW to some degree. However, in a Corvair, you are transmitting that load through the front two rod throws. The 90 degree break across the throw right next to the bearing journal indicates to me that the crank was being flexed with that type of load just as if you had bent it back and forth until it broke. The further you move the prop out from that bearing, the more it magnifies that load. That doesn't mean that the Corvair is a bad or dangerous engine. Only that you have to be mindful of it's design limitations and place the prop as close to the front bearing as possible to keep the gyroscopic loads transmitted to the crankshaft to a minimum. Also perfectly tracked and balanced, as well as light weight props would be in order. Ok, here's the disclaimer. I am a mechanic, not an engineer, so take my analysis with a grain of salt. It is also not my intention to throw rocks at anyone's plane or engine choice. My interest here lies strictly in the safety of my friends. -Jeff Scott -- "Mark Jones" wrote: No one has mentioned anything about detonation of the engine as a factor in crank failure. Detonation causes undue stresses on a crank by creating a hammer like force generated from the piston through the rods to the crank. This hammer-like shock wave being imposed on the crank causes severe overloading. Detonation can destroy an engine very quickly. How many of the crank failure engines actually were subjected to detonation. The only one who has confessed to having detonation was Mark Langford and his was a brief period on departure per his post of June 10th. Just something else to think about. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:11:09 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: RE: Réf. : KR> WAF Bolt Type To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050621.071142.1598.173235@webmail01.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain I rarely agree with Serge, but in this case he is absolutely correct. Cad plated bolts and self locking nuts only. To line up the pin positions with drilled bolts you often times have to either overtorque or undertorque the bolts. I prefer AN363 metal self locking nuts for this application, but that is a matter of preference. I'm not calling Mark's wrong, but I wouldn't encourage others to do the same. -Jeff Scott -- "Mark Jones" wrote: That will work too. I guess it is a matter of personal preference. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Serge VIDAL Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:45 AM To: KRnet Subject: Réf. : KR> WAF Bolt Type 1 - Cadmium plated. The Stainless Steel ones are not suitable, because they are weaker, and they induce galvanic corrosion. 2 - Undrilled. 3 - The nuts will be AN365 (Nylon locknuts) 4 - No Locktite on structural applications. Once you have torqued the bolts, you can put a strip of paint to mark, and be able to check visually in the unlikely event that you would lose the torque. Have a nice trip to ASS! Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France JSMONDAY@aol.com Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-06-21 15:33 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-06-21 15:34 Pour : krnet@mylist.net cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> WAF Bolt Type On the WAF through bolts.. 3/16" AN3 etc.... what type of bolts should I get.. Cad Plated or Stainless? Drilled or undrilled? What kind of nuts if not drilled? Should you use Locktite? On my way to AS&S! Thanks, John Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:41:31 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : RE: R?f. : KR> WAF Bolt Type To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Metal self locking nuts tend to damage the plating, that's why I tend to avoid them. They are useful, though, inside the engine compartment, where Nylon locknuts are not allowed because the Nylon insert would melt at high temperatures. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Jeff Scott" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-06-21 16:11 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-06-21 17:04 Pour : krnet@mylist.net cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : RE: Réf. : KR> WAF Bolt Type I rarely agree with Serge, but in this case he is absolutely correct. Cad plated bolts and self locking nuts only. To line up the pin positions with drilled bolts you often times have to either overtorque or undertorque the bolts. I prefer AN363 metal self locking nuts for this application, but that is a matter of preference. I'm not calling Mark's wrong, but I wouldn't encourage others to do the same. -Jeff Scott -- "Mark Jones" wrote: That will work too. I guess it is a matter of personal preference. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Serge VIDAL Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:45 AM To: KRnet Subject: Réf. : KR> WAF Bolt Type 1 - Cadmium plated. The Stainless Steel ones are not suitable, because they are weaker, and they induce galvanic corrosion. 2 - Undrilled. 3 - The nuts will be AN365 (Nylon locknuts) 4 - No Locktite on structural applications. Once you have torqued the bolts, you can put a strip of paint to mark, and be able to check visually in the unlikely event that you would lose the torque. Have a nice trip to ASS! Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France JSMONDAY@aol.com Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-06-21 15:33 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-06-21 15:34 Pour : krnet@mylist.net cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> WAF Bolt Type On the WAF through bolts.. 3/16" AN3 etc.... what type of bolts should I get.. Cad Plated or Stainless? Drilled or undrilled? What kind of nuts if not drilled? Should you use Locktite? On my way to AS&S! Thanks, John Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:08:32 -0400 From: "haroldwoods" Subject: KR> primer for metals such as the WAFs. To: Message-ID: <000801c5769c$ffffff30$0401a8c0@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Netters, Some one asked about the primer for painting WAFs.Below is what I use. Green Epoxy Primer. Manufactured by Dupont. Epoxy Dupont 2580CR, LF Epoxy DTM Primer Sealer. Mix 2 parts by volume to 1 volume of catalyst, Catalyst , Dupont 2505S, DTM Epoxy Primer (activator- mid temperature) Pot life is several hours (depending on temperature) if the mixture is kept covered after mixing. Apply by spray or brush. Apply over clean (grease free) , sanded steel, galvanized steel, stainless steel, aluminum. 1 medium coat (0.8- 1.2 mil.) as a sealer 1 medium wet coat (0.8- 1.2 mils.) over Aluminum, stainless steel, galvanized steel. 30 minutes flash before recoating. Can apply up to 2 wet coats (0.8 - 2.2 mils.) as a primer over galvanized steel.Allow 40 to 60 minutes before top coating. Spray pressures. Siphon.....30-45 PSI Gravity....30-40 PSI HVLP....... 8-10 PSI I paid about $100.00 for the kit which contained about 1 liter of Epoxy and about 0.5 liters of catalyst. This kit was purchased from Garage Supply in Orillia. Regards Harold Woods Orillia,ON.Canada haroldwoods@rogers.com ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:37:31 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> primer for metals such as the WAFs. To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Harold wrote- >Some one asked about the primer for painting WAFs.Below is what I use. >Green Epoxy Primer. Manufactured by Dupont. Epoxy Dupont 2580CR, LF >Epoxy DTM Primer Sealer. Mix 2 parts by volume to 1 volume of catalyst, >Catalyst , Dupont 2505S, DTM Epoxy Primer (activator- mid temperature) I wasn't going to mention this since the person who asked the question is located somewhere other than the U.S. and I'm not sure it's available other than here, but for a much easier way to do epoxy primer, one-step, inexpensive, you can try "Aervoe Green Rebar Epoxy Coating". I got mine from Lab Safety Supply at http://www.labsafety.com/store/product_group.asp?dept_id=29900&parent_id=367 less than $5 a 16-oz. spray can. I believe William Wynne's friend Dave "The Bear" Vargesko used it to prime the entire tube fuselage structure of his Wag-A-Bond (pictures at http://www.flycorvair.com/wagabond.html) It's pretty tough stuff and finishes nicely. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:37:44 -0600 From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" Subject: KR> Turtle deck To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Can someone provide me with a bit of guidance as to the turtle deck. Should I build it... or buy it from KR? I like the shape of the deck that KR sells... but I was hoping to save a few $$ if I built it myself. So my question is.. am I really going to save that much $$ if I build rather then buying one aready finished? -Jeff ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:43:44 -0400 From: flyKRS@netscape.net Subject: KR> Windmilling Prop for Steeper Glide slope with Compression release valve? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <51D8176E.693E37C0.0006291F@netscape.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 With the clean glide of a KR and as an alternative to belly board the question of How to get Drag on a low drag airframe. The topic of windmilling prop stirred the thought of source and the old motorcycle engine compression release valve as a means to manage that windmilling prop. So there you are on 100 mph final throttled back normally and expecting a 1,200 ft ground roll but you desire to build up the drag. So you pull the compression release cable and the Gas-stilly noise of partially combustible's eminate from the engine the propeller speeds up alot , glide slope steepens then rotation flare with substantially greater deceleration and the ground roll of 700 ft. Before to engine quits you release the compression release valve and the engine idles to a purr. Well any body out there got any constructive critisim of the idea? In the subject of safety situation a hasty go around decision would be accomadated with valve release and advanced throttle. __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:52:48 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Finally a Pilot again To: Message-ID: <42B88C30.00000B.03764@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well, today I got signed off to be a pilot again after 10 years away from flying. I did not remember that the 172 was so hard to fly. I guess that the KR spoiled me. It seemed like I had to muscle it to make it go where I needed it to go. It was most difficult to operate the elevator without trim and in slow flight, I thought my arms were going to give out. It was like flying a brick. He said that I had a smooth touch with the plane, which is the nicest thing that anyone has ever said about my flying. Come to think of it, it is the only nice thing anyone has ever said about my flying. Even though I am officially signed off, he told me that I need to take some remedial "landings 101", which I have set up for tomorrow morning. Putting in the new fuel sender probe tonight, so maybe it won't be long now. I think I NEED BILL. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:24:12 +1000 From: "Martindale Family" Subject: Re: KR> Detonation as crank failure cause? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004301c576af$f37347a0$e7e7eddc@martindale> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Jeff The actual gyroscopic load total doesn't alter because the prop mass/diameter/speed doesn't change with distance. However, changing its arm (extension) would alter its distribution along the crank with the bearing acting as a pivot and could well move it into the same journal as one where harmonics are focussed as well. The total moments either side of the pivot must equal zero. John The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit Toormina NSW 2452 Australia ph: 61 2 66 584767 email: johnjanet@optusnet.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Scott" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 12:54 AM Subject: Re: KR> Detonation as crank failure cause? > > Detonation can certainly cause some bearing damage, but it would have > to be quite severe and continuous to break a crank. I've torn down an engine subjected to severe and constant detonation (mistimed ignition timing due to a slipped harmonic balancer in a boat). It looked like someone had worked over the tops of the pistons with a ball peen hammer. The rod bearing damage was minimal, any damage to the mains was undecernable, and the crankshaft journals were all still within specs, although no longer perfectly round. Had it continued to run as it was, it would have pounded out the rod bearings and damaged the crank by flattening or otherwise trashing the rod journals first. > > Perhaps it's time to take into account the gyroscopic loads imposed by > the spinning prop. The prop makes a great gyroscope out in front of the plane. Any change in direction is resisted by the gyroscopic effect of the prop and that load is transmitted as a bending moment to the prop hub. In the Corvair, there is only one small bearing in the front of the case taking that load. That bearing get's used like a fulcrum with second main countering the gyroscopic load from the prop. That works pretty well when you transmit that load through a solid shaft like aircraft engines and even the VW to some degree. However, in a Corvair, you are transmitting that load through the front two rod throws. The 90 degree break across the throw right next to the bearing journal indicates to me that the crank was being flexed with that type of load just as if you had bent it back and forth until it broke. The further you move the prop out from that bearing, the more it magnifies that load. That doesn't mean that the Corvair is a bad or dangerous engine. Only that you have to be mindful of it's design limitations and place the prop as close to the front bearing as possible to keep the gyroscopic loads transmitted to the crankshaft to a minimum. Also perfectly tracked and balanced, as well as light weight props would be in order. > > Ok, here's the disclaimer. I am a mechanic, not an engineer, so take > my analysis with a grain of salt. It is also not my intention to throw rocks at anyone's plane or engine choice. My interest here lies strictly in the safety of my friends. > > -Jeff Scott > > > > -- "Mark Jones" wrote: > No one has mentioned anything about detonation of the engine as a > factor in crank failure. Detonation causes undue stresses on a crank by creating a hammer like force generated from the piston through the rods to the crank. This hammer-like shock wave being imposed on the crank causes severe overloading. Detonation can destroy an engine very quickly. How many of the crank failure engines actually were subjected to detonation. The only one who has confessed to having detonation was Mark Langford and his was a brief period on departure per his post of June 10th. Just something else to think about. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj > Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:39:40 -0400 From: Subject: KR> For Sale - KR Tri-Gear Exhaust (4 into 1) and KR 5 Point Mount: for KR2 or KR2S To: Message-ID: <000001c576b2$2015c100$8179fea9@pyer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For Sale - KR Tri-Gear Exhaust (4 into 1) and KR 5 Point Mount: for KR2 or KR2S. Birko@sbcglobal.net ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:42:36 -0400 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> Turtle deck To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001301c576b2$85da7530$2da672d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Jeff When I do my next KR (my 4th) I will extend my canopy frame rearwards14-18 inches so that when I opened the canopy,... part of the turtle deck would come up with it, laying visible a built in luggage area and easy access to the battery which in my case is behind the seat....and the turn buckles and anything else bolted to the rear spar. That would make for a much smaller turtle deck, ergo, easier to make. Although the deck is easy to make in any case. I used regular blue insulation foam from the lumber yard and with a one inch by two foot piece of pine with 80 grit paper glued to it & sanded it to the shape I thought pleasing . Put two layers of 6 oz glass on the outside and one layer on the inside. We're talking 50 bucks at the most to do it this way ezcluding coast of canopy. Don't know what a KR deck sells for. Good luck! Pat R ----- Original Message ----- From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: KR> Turtle deck > Can someone provide me with a bit of guidance as to the turtle deck. > > Should I build it... or buy it from KR? > > I like the shape of the deck that KR sells... but I was hoping to save > a > few > $$ if I built it myself. > > So my question is.. am I really going to save that much $$ if I build > rather > then buying one aready finished? > > -Jeff > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:19:12 -0500 From: "Bob Glidden" Subject: Re: KR> Windmilling Prop for Steeper Glide slope with Compressionrelease valve? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <019901c576b7$a2720000$6401a8c0@ADMINISTRATOR> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I think in a case like Mark L.is a good example of why your prop not wind mill is a good thing,with the extra drag caused by the windmilling prop he more then likely would not have made the airport.I don't clam to speak for everyone on the subject,but unless I;m at about 10,000 feet I'm not going to try diving and restarting anything,from some of the reports I've read about guys who have tried it found out when it don't restart the engine you hit the ground a lot harder.I don't remember when practicing engine outs with my instructor him ever saying if the engine quits try to dive and restart it.Just a thought!!!!! Bob Glidden Eminence,Indiana KR2S N181FW (building) Corvair 110 glidden@ccrtc.com ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:21:16 +0100 From: "phil brookman" Subject: Re: KR> For Sale - KR Tri-Gear Exhaust (4 into 1) and KR 5 Point Mount:for KR2 or KR2S To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <019d01c576b7$ec431840$73a51352@philljl2re6t9i> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 what size are the headersin diameter and what lengths are the pipes etc tell us more please p ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 11:39 PM Subject: KR> For Sale - KR Tri-Gear Exhaust (4 into 1) and KR 5 Point Mount:for KR2 or KR2S > For Sale - KR Tri-Gear Exhaust (4 into 1) and KR 5 Point Mount: for > KR2 or KR2S. Birko@sbcglobal.net > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: > 17/06/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 17/06/2005 ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 243 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================