From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 269 Date: 7/12/2005 9:00:26 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: The Stall (larry flesner) 2. Re: The Stall (Dennis Mingear) 3. Re: The Stall (Dennis Mingear) 4. KR rudders (Orma) 5. Re: The Stall (Mark Jones) 6. Re: The Stall (Al Friesen) 7. Re: The Stall (Dennis Mingear) 8. Re: Turtle deck advice (wilder_jeff Wilder) 9. Re: The Stall (cartera) 10. KR rudders (larry flesner) 11. Re: Matt question on your glass panel (Matthew Elder) 12. Re: The Stall (Dennis Mingear) 13. Re: Turtle deck advice (Matthew Elder) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:03:50 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> The Stall To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050712190350.007cb5e0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Rudder control in my KR2S is not a wing leveler, it can make the result >worse. I have tried rudder at cruise and it will control SMALL deflections >in the wings but not fore long. I use ailerones to keep the wings level, >dah. Al Friesen +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Except for takeoff and landings, and full power climbouts, a well rigged KR flies best with your feet on the floor, not the rudder peddles. :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:24:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> The Stall To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050713002454.30238.qmail@web51405.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Gee Al, be nice. I was talking about slow flight not cruise speeds. Denny ... --- Al Friesen wrote: > Denny, > Rudder control in my KR2S is not a wing leveler, it > can make the result > worse. I have tried rudder at cruise and it will > control SMALL deflections > in the wings but not fore long. I use ailerones to > keep the wings level, > dah. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Mingear" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 2:02 PM > Subject: Re: KR> The Stall > > > > Since I started this thread I guess I should > clarify > > what I meant to say and what was clarified so > > concisely by another member of the list. > > > > I've been properly and politely reminded that > > maintaining coodination while in slow flight is > what's > > really important, As was pointed out earlier by > > Collin(?, hope I got your name right), using > aileron > > is ok as long as it is used smoothly, minimally > and > > with some caution. However, Rapid full deflection deployment of > > ailerons while flying near the > stalling > > point of the wing can excite the airflow over a > > wingtip in unexpected and surprisiing ways. > > > > I fly gliders and ailerons would be used very > > carefully while flying near the giders stalling > > speed. I realize that a glider is not a KR and > I've > > read enough of these e-mails over the years to > know > > that sometimes a KR is not a KR, there are many > > variations on the basic theme. > > > > If you've followed me this far though I do have a > > question however; > > > > Is the rudder ever useful in keeping the wings > level > > during slow flight in a KR? > > > > And if the answer is yes, If the rudder has lost > its > > ability to keep the wings level, should that > airspeed > > just above the loss of rudder be the minimum speed > > used during slowflight? > > > > Denny ... > > > > --- Al Friesen wrote: > > > >> Larry, > >> You have the control for the KR right, Rudder > >> control on its own is not > >> correct. Al > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "larry flesner" > >> To: "KRnet" > >> Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 3:48 PM > >> Subject: KR> The Stall > >> > >> > >> > > >> >>Thanks for the report, good reading, but please > be > >> >>very careful when using aileron during your > stall > >> >>tests. You don't want to seperate the airflow > from > >> a > >> >>wingtip and initiate a soin, that would be > >> exciting. > >> >>Denny ... > >> > > >> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >> > > >> > My KR, which is built and rigged to plans > except > >> for the 24" > >> > stretch, will not respond to raising a wing > using > >> rudder. > >> > However, the ailerons are effective up to and > >> through the > >> > stall. If I try to "rudder" a wing up it > causes > >> the nose to > >> > pitch down from, I suspect, a partial blanking > out > >> of the > >> > horz stab / elevator. If I stay off the rudder > it > >> will keep the > >> > ball centered on its own. So, I just treat it > >> like it wants to > >> > be treated and we get along just fine. > >> > > >> > As always , your results may vary.......... > >> > > >> > Larry Flesner > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________ > >> > Search the KRnet Archives at > >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > >> KRnet-leave@mylist.net > >> > please see other KRnet info at > >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >> > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.13/47 > - > >> Release Date: 7/12/2005 > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________ > >> Search the KRnet Archives at > >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > >> please see other KRnet info at > >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >> > > > > > > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. > That does not make the > > monkey patriotic." > > > > Scott Ritter > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.13/47 - > Release Date: 7/12/2005 > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:27:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> The Stall To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050713002718.28260.qmail@web51401.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 That's what I'm asking about, the slow flight regime. How much rudder do you use in the slow flight mode and how does your KR respond to rudder inputs while in that flight mode? Denny ... --- larry flesner wrote: > > >Rudder control in my KR2S is not a wing leveler, it > can make the result > >worse. I have tried rudder at cruise and it will > control SMALL deflections > >in the wings but not fore long. I use ailerones to > keep the wings level, > >dah. > Al Friesen > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Except for takeoff and landings, and full power > climbouts, a > well rigged KR flies best with your feet on the > floor, not the > rudder peddles. :-) > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:39:48 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: KR> KR rudders To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <007601c58743$605fb210$0202a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Net Larry says "a well rigged KR flies best with your feet on the floor, not the rudder peddles" Gee Larry, I don't know about that. When I fly into or away from the wind, my feet can sit on the floor. If I am flying with a cross wind, I trim the rudder to relieve the pressure on my foot. It is the same with any plane that I have flown in a crosswind. Perhaps I am missing something. Could you explain? Orma Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:42:46 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> The Stall To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002701c58743$cc37e160$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I beg to differ...it was my report of my first stall that started this thread with your reply saying not to use aileron a that could induce a spin. In all of my flight training (I earned my ticket in 1976), I was taught to apply slight opposite aileron to wing drop after some opposite rudder. I have stalled hundreds of times and never had a problem. Just curious Denny, but have you ever flown in a KR or piloted one? I am not asking that to be a smart a&&, just wondering. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Mingear" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 5:02 PM Subject: Re: KR> The Stall > Since I started this thread I guess I should clarify > what I meant to say and what was clarified so > concisely by another member of the list. > > I've been properly and politely reminded that > maintaining coodination while in slow flight is what's > really important, As was pointed out earlier by > Collin(?, hope I got your name right), using aileron > is ok as long as it is used smoothly, minimally and > with some caution. However, Rapid full deflection > deployment of ailerons while flying near the stalling > point of the wing can excite the airflow over a > wingtip in unexpected and surprisiing ways. > > I fly gliders and ailerons would be used very > carefully while flying near the giders stalling > speed. I realize that a glider is not a KR and I've > read enough of these e-mails over the years to know > that sometimes a KR is not a KR, there are many > variations on the basic theme. > > If you've followed me this far though I do have a > question however; > > Is the rudder ever useful in keeping the wings level > during slow flight in a KR? > > And if the answer is yes, If the rudder has lost its > ability to keep the wings level, should that airspeed > just above the loss of rudder be the minimum speed > used during slowflight? > > Denny ... > > --- Al Friesen wrote: > > > Larry, > > You have the control for the KR right, Rudder > > control on its own is not > > correct. Al > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "larry flesner" > > To: "KRnet" > > Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 3:48 PM > > Subject: KR> The Stall > > > > > > > > > >>Thanks for the report, good reading, but please be > > >>very careful when using aileron during your stall > > >>tests. You don't want to seperate the airflow from > > a > > >>wingtip and initiate a soin, that would be > > exciting. > > >>Denny ... > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > > My KR, which is built and rigged to plans except > > for the 24" > > > stretch, will not respond to raising a wing using > > rudder. > > > However, the ailerons are effective up to and > > through the > > > stall. If I try to "rudder" a wing up it causes > > the nose to > > > pitch down from, I suspect, a partial blanking out > > of the > > > horz stab / elevator. If I stay off the rudder it > > will keep the > > > ball centered on its own. So, I just treat it > > like it wants to > > > be treated and we get along just fine. > > > > > > As always , your results may vary.......... > > > > > > Larry Flesner > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > > please see other KRnet info at > > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.13/47 - > > Release Date: 7/12/2005 > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at > > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." > > Scott Ritter > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:15:45 -0800 From: "Al Friesen" Subject: Re: KR> The Stall To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002701c58750$c726cf30$8bf451cf@alk1e9f7i3pcg3> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I did not mean to be rude. In slow flight in take-off and slow turns I use rudder to keep the ball centered. It doesn't level the wings. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Mingear" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 4:27 PM Subject: Re: KR> The Stall > That's what I'm asking about, the slow flight regime. > > How much rudder do you use in the slow flight mode and > how does your KR respond to rudder inputs while in > that flight mode? > > Denny ... > > --- larry flesner wrote: > >> >> >Rudder control in my KR2S is not a wing leveler, it >> can make the result >> >worse. I have tried rudder at cruise and it will >> control SMALL deflections >> >in the wings but not fore long. I use ailerones to >> keep the wings level, >> >dah. >> Al Friesen >> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> Except for takeoff and landings, and full power >> climbouts, a >> well rigged KR flies best with your feet on the >> floor, not the >> rudder peddles. :-) >> >> Larry Flesner >> >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to >> KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > > > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the > monkey patriotic." > > Scott Ritter > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.13/47 - Release Date: 7/12/2005 > > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:00:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> The Stall To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050713020003.54239.qmail@web51410.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thanks Al, I became interested in the slow flight characteristics of the KR after reading the e-mail that started this thread. You, or someone mentioned that applying rudder after the stall developed would make the stall worse and that you would use aileron to keep the wings level. Someone mentioned that the 3 degrees of washout in the wing of many KR's kept the ailerons effective through the stall. I don't know, I'm just curious about KR slow flight behavior with and without power. Denny ... --- Al Friesen wrote: > I did not mean to be rude. In slow flight in > take-off and slow turns I use > rudder to keep the ball centered. It doesn't level > the wings. Al > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Mingear" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 4:27 PM > Subject: Re: KR> The Stall > > > > That's what I'm asking about, the slow flight > regime. > > > > How much rudder do you use in the slow flight mode > and > > how does your KR respond to rudder inputs while in > > that flight mode? > > > > Denny ... > > > > --- larry flesner wrote: > > > >> > >> >Rudder control in my KR2S is not a wing leveler, > it > >> can make the result > >> >worse. I have tried rudder at cruise and it will > >> control SMALL deflections > >> >in the wings but not fore long. I use ailerones > to > >> keep the wings level, > >> >dah. > >> Al Friesen > >> > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >> > >> Except for takeoff and landings, and full power > >> climbouts, a > >> well rigged KR flies best with your feet on the > >> floor, not the > >> rudder peddles. :-) > >> > >> Larry Flesner > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________ > >> Search the KRnet Archives at > >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > >> KRnet-leave@mylist.net > >> please see other KRnet info at > >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >> > > > > > > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. > That does not make the > > monkey patriotic." > > > > Scott Ritter > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.13/47 - > Release Date: 7/12/2005 > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:53:59 -0600 From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" Subject: Re: KR> Turtle deck advice To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed well I layed up the fiberglass with polyester resin... The "spine and ribs" do not look like its going to be an issue... but what I do see as an issue is when I layed the mylar over the mold ... there are subltle dips and hills because of the uneveness of the plastic. The cloth followed the contour of the plastic. I do not believe its going to bad enough to rip it off and spend another 100 bucks and start over. I guess I am going to become cozy with bondo... UGGG!!.. -Jeff >From: "Dan Heath" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: >Subject: Re: KR> Turtle deck advice >Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:37:21 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) > >That is what I would do and it should be quite easy. Cut a long triangle >shaped piece out of foam and hot glue it to the inside and glass it. > >See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering >See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics >There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for >building >has expired. >Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC >-------Original Message------- >I may be able to create some type of hat >out of foam and glass it after I pull the piece off. >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:56:22 -0600 From: cartera Subject: Re: KR> The Stall To: KRnet Message-ID: <42D482D6.2060507@spots.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed I agree with every aspect that you present Mark and your right. This can go on forever the only way is to get some altitude and misuse all you controls and see what happens for one particular aircraft. In cruises flight feet on the floor and in slow flight you may have to correct for yaw. Rudder is only to induce and control yaw, nothing else. Happy Flying, Guys! Adrian Mark Jones wrote: >I beg to differ...it was my report of my first stall that started this >thread with your reply saying not to use aileron a that could induce a spin. >In all of my flight training (I earned my ticket in 1976), I was taught to >apply slight opposite aileron to wing drop after some opposite rudder. I >have stalled hundreds of times and never had a problem. Just curious Denny, >but have you ever flown in a KR or piloted one? I am not asking that to be a >smart a&&, just wondering. > >Mark Jones (N886MJ) >Wales, WI USA >E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com >Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at >http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dennis Mingear" >To: "KRnet" >Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 5:02 PM >Subject: Re: KR> The Stall > > > > >>Since I started this thread I guess I should clarify >>what I meant to say and what was clarified so >>concisely by another member of the list. >> >>I've been properly and politely reminded that >>maintaining coodination while in slow flight is what's >>really important, As was pointed out earlier by >>Collin(?, hope I got your name right), using aileron >>is ok as long as it is used smoothly, minimally and >>with some caution. However, Rapid full deflection >>deployment of ailerons while flying near the stalling >>point of the wing can excite the airflow over a >>wingtip in unexpected and surprisiing ways. >> >>I fly gliders and ailerons would be used very >>carefully while flying near the giders stalling >>speed. I realize that a glider is not a KR and I've >>read enough of these e-mails over the years to know >>that sometimes a KR is not a KR, there are many >>variations on the basic theme. >> >>If you've followed me this far though I do have a >>question however; >> >>Is the rudder ever useful in keeping the wings level >>during slow flight in a KR? >> >>And if the answer is yes, If the rudder has lost its >>ability to keep the wings level, should that airspeed >>just above the loss of rudder be the minimum speed >>used during slowflight? >> >>Denny ... >> >>--- Al Friesen wrote: >> >> >> >>>Larry, >>>You have the control for the KR right, Rudder >>>control on its own is not >>>correct. Al >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "larry flesner" >>>To: "KRnet" >>>Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 3:48 PM >>>Subject: KR> The Stall >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>Thanks for the report, good reading, but please be >>>>>very careful when using aileron during your stall >>>>>tests. You don't want to seperate the airflow from >>>>> >>>>> >>>a >>> >>> >>>>>wingtip and initiate a soin, that would be >>>>> >>>>> >>>exciting. >>> >>> >>>>>Denny ... >>>>> >>>>> >>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> >>> >>>>My KR, which is built and rigged to plans except >>>> >>>> >>>for the 24" >>> >>> >>>>stretch, will not respond to raising a wing using >>>> >>>> >>>rudder. >>> >>> >>>>However, the ailerons are effective up to and >>>> >>>> >>>through the >>> >>> >>>>stall. If I try to "rudder" a wing up it causes >>>> >>>> >>>the nose to >>> >>> >>>>pitch down from, I suspect, a partial blanking out >>>> >>>> >>>of the >>> >>> >>>>horz stab / elevator. If I stay off the rudder it >>>> >>>> >>>will keep the >>> >>> >>>>ball centered on its own. So, I just treat it >>>> >>>> >>>like it wants to >>> >>> >>>>be treated and we get along just fine. >>>> >>>>As always , your results may vary.......... >>>> >>>>Larry Flesner >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________ >>>>Search the KRnet Archives at >>>> >>>> >>>http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >>> >>> >>>>to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to >>>> >>>> >>>KRnet-leave@mylist.net >>> >>> >>>>please see other KRnet info at >>>> >>>> >>>http://www.krnet.org/info.html >>> >>> >>>>-- >>>>No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >>>>Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.13/47 - >>>> >>>> >>>Release Date: 7/12/2005 >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________ >>>Search the KRnet Archives at >>>http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >>>to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to >>>KRnet-leave@mylist.net >>>please see other KRnet info at >>>http://www.krnet.org/info.html >>> >>> >>> >>"I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the >> >> >monkey patriotic." > > >>Scott Ritter >> >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>http://mail.yahoo.com >> >>_______________________________________ >>Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >>to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >>please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> > > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > -- Adrian VE6AFY Mailto:cartera@spots.ab.ca http://www.spots.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:45:41 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> KR rudders To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050712224541.00850de0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Larry says "a well rigged KR flies best with your feet on the floor, not the rudder peddles" >Gee Larry, I don't know about that. When I fly into or away from the wind, my feet can sit on the floor. If I am flying with a cross wind, I trim the rudder to relieve the pressure on my foot. It is the same with any plane that I have flown in a crosswind. Perhaps I am missing something. Could you explain? >Orma ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Orma, I'm talking "in trim at cruise" for feet on the floor. I have more trouble keeping the ball centered in my KR when resting my feet on the rudders as I seem to soon get a heavy foot on one rudder or the other. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by having to trim for a crosswind. An airplane trimmed out for "straight and level" should require the same trim for whatever direction the wind is blowing. The pilot should be the only one to know which way the wind is blowing by the heading and actual ground tract. I've got 1000 hours in aircraft with no rudder trim installed and ,except for landing, I've never had to hold rudder to allow for a crosswind. What am I missing in your question? Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:45:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Elder Subject: Re: KR> Matt question on your glass panel To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050713034545.51528.qmail@web30215.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Ahh... Yes. Well the glass panel project, though mostly written, has taken a back seat to getting the real airplane built. My plane will have steam gages until such time I can get around to finishing up the panel. The biggest obstacle in my glass panel at the moment is the screen... It's tough to find a 10.4" panel that is sunlight readable for a good price. Most everything I've seen that is Transflective or HighBright( > 1000 nits) costs in the $700 range. This is okay if that's the only option I have, but it would be nice to find one cheaper of course. That price does include the inverter(s) and the driver board. If anyone has any info on something that is usable in the $300-$500 range, please let me know! Thanks for the compliments! Matt --- Ron Smith wrote: > > > I have been looking at your project with great > interest. I noticed that you plan to have a glass > panel. > > Do you plan on having one similar to the one by > DYNON, > > www.dynonavionics.com > > Their Electronic Flight info system, seems very > attractive, although the screen seems a bit small. > > I was thinking that a laptop computer would be > nicer, > and then I saw what you were planning. Do you plan > to > give anymore details? > > I enjoy your site and project very much, keep up the > good work. > > See my project @ www.ronsmith.myphotoalbum.com > > Regards, > Ron Smith, > KR2SSXL > cypress ca, > mercedesmann@yahoo.com > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------------------------- Matthew Elder Orangeburg, SC http://www.infinigral.com/melder My Airplane Project: http://www.infinigral.com/melder/flying/KR1/ ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:47:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> The Stall To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050713034758.79679.qmail@web51410.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Yes Mark, this is your thread, I was only taking responsiblity for sending it off into uncharted airspace. I have flown 172's, 152's and several glider tyoes, but no KR's, that's why I'm curious about their slow flight behavior, I'm in the learning/building mode. I'll be much more careful in the future when I'm commenting on someone elses flight experience. thanks ... Denny --- Mark Jones wrote: > I beg to differ...it was my report of my first stall > that started this > thread with your reply saying not to use aileron a > that could induce a spin. > In all of my flight training (I earned my ticket in > 1976), I was taught to > apply slight opposite aileron to wing drop after > some opposite rudder. I > have stalled hundreds of times and never had a > problem. Just curious Denny, > but have you ever flown in a KR or piloted one? I am > not asking that to be a > smart a&&, just wondering. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Mingear" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 5:02 PM > Subject: Re: KR> The Stall > > > > Since I started this thread I guess I should > clarify > > what I meant to say and what was clarified so > > concisely by another member of the list. > > > > I've been properly and politely reminded that > > maintaining coodination while in slow flight is > what's > > really important, As was pointed out earlier by > > Collin(?, hope I got your name right), using > aileron > > is ok as long as it is used smoothly, minimally > and > > with some caution. However, Rapid full deflection > > deployment of ailerons while flying near the > stalling > > point of the wing can excite the airflow over a > > wingtip in unexpected and surprisiing ways. > > > > I fly gliders and ailerons would be used very > > carefully while flying near the giders stalling > > speed. I realize that a glider is not a KR and > I've > > read enough of these e-mails over the years to > know > > that sometimes a KR is not a KR, there are many > > variations on the basic theme. > > > > If you've followed me this far though I do have a > > question however; > > > > Is the rudder ever useful in keeping the wings > level > > during slow flight in a KR? > > > > And if the answer is yes, If the rudder has lost > its > > ability to keep the wings level, should that > airspeed > > just above the loss of rudder be the minimum speed > > used during slowflight? > > > > Denny ... > > > > --- Al Friesen wrote: > > > > > Larry, > > > You have the control for the KR right, Rudder > > > control on its own is not > > > correct. Al > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "larry flesner" > > > To: "KRnet" > > > Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 3:48 PM > > > Subject: KR> The Stall > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Thanks for the report, good reading, but > please be > > > >>very careful when using aileron during your > stall > > > >>tests. You don't want to seperate the airflow > from > > > a > > > >>wingtip and initiate a soin, that would be > > > exciting. > > > >>Denny ... > > > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > > > > My KR, which is built and rigged to plans > except > > > for the 24" > > > > stretch, will not respond to raising a wing > using > > > rudder. > > > > However, the ailerons are effective up to and > > > through the > > > > stall. If I try to "rudder" a wing up it > causes > > > the nose to > > > > pitch down from, I suspect, a partial blanking > out > > > of the > > > > horz stab / elevator. If I stay off the > rudder it > > > will keep the > > > > ball centered on its own. So, I just treat it > > > like it wants to > > > > be treated and we get along just fine. > > > > > > > > As always , your results may vary.......... > > > > > > > > Larry Flesner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > > > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > > > please see other KRnet info at > > > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.13/47 > - > > > Release Date: 7/12/2005 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > > > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > > please see other KRnet info at > > > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. > That does not make the > monkey patriotic." > > > > Scott Ritter > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:53:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Elder Subject: Re: KR> Turtle deck advice To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050713035345.91229.qmail@web30214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Instead of mylar, use Monokote. I forgot to mention that earlier... Works like a charm with epoxy... Not so well with 'esters (but still works). For those that don't know, it's a heat shrinkable plastic with a heat activated sticky backing used to cover model airplanes. Awsome stuff, and no wrinkles on your plug... Matt --- wilder_jeff Wilder wrote: > well I layed up the fiberglass with polyester > resin... The "spine and ribs" > do not look like its going to be an issue... but > what I do see as an issue > is when I layed the mylar over the mold ... there > are subltle dips and hills > because of the uneveness of the plastic. The cloth > followed the contour of > the plastic. I do not believe its going to bad > enough to rip it off and > spend another 100 bucks and start over. > > I guess I am going to become cozy with bondo... > UGGG!!.. > > -Jeff > > >From: "Dan Heath" > >Reply-To: KRnet > >To: > >Subject: Re: KR> Turtle deck advice > >Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 17:37:21 -0400 (Eastern > Daylight Time) > > > >That is what I would do and it should be quite > easy. Cut a long triangle > >shaped piece out of foam and hot glue it to the > inside and glass it. > > > >See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > >See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on > the pics > >There is a time for building and a time for FLYING > and the time for > >building > >has expired. > >Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > >-------Original Message------- > >I may be able to create some type of hat > >out of foam and glass it after I pull the piece > off. > >_______________________________________ > >Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > >please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------------------------- Matthew Elder Orangeburg, SC http://www.infinigral.com/melder My Airplane Project: http://www.infinigral.com/melder/flying/KR1/ ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 269 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================