From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 271 Date: 7/14/2005 8:21:18 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: ground handling (jscott.pilot@juno.com) 2. Re: ground handling (jscott.pilot@juno.com) 3. kr structiure (chris johnston) 4. Re: kr structiure (Orma) 5. Re: Matt question on your glass panel (Matthew Elder) 6. kr structiure/gear legs (larry flesner) 7. archiving and the digest (Oscar Zuniga) 8. RE: archiving and the digest (Mark Jones) 9. Re: Stalls (Donald Reid) 10. Re: kr structiure/gear legs (Jeff Scott) 11. Joy of building. (robert clark) 12. Re: Stalls (Dennis Mingear) 13. Re: kr structiure/gear legs (Mark Langford) 14. Re: archiving and the digest (Dennis Mingear) 15. Re: kr structiure (Dennis Mingear) 16. Re: First passenger (Al Friesen) 17. Re: hog air (Martha Crawford) 18. Re: Re: hog air (Dennis Mingear) 19. RE: hog air (Sean Caranna) 20. The Citation Won (Mark Jones) 21. Re: RE: hog air (Dennis Mingear) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:06:46 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Subject: Re: KR> ground handling To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050713.220656.2544.0.jscott.pilot@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:38:01 -0500 larry flesner writes: > > >There are a couple of differences here. #1) I run my tailwheel steering > much looser than you, by preference. #2) You're runway is at ~500' ASL. > Mine is at 7200'ASL, which means that the ground speed and ground roll > before the rudder becomes effective is significantly greater. > >Jeff Scott > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > My ground handling experience in any type of aircraft would all be at > a density altitude of less than 3000 feet so I have no idea of how > much effect the higher altitudes have on ground handling. I would > like to hear your thoughts on why you prefer a looser tailwheel > connection. It's primarily a matter of preference. There isn't a right or wrong. My Starduster used to have fairly tight tailwheel steering with a Scott 2000 tailwheel which has a single arm to support the tailwheel axle. On occasion, when landing with a crosswind, the tailwheel would touch down cocked off just enough that it would knock the hard rubber tire off the rim and leave me rolling out grinding down the aluminum hub. First time I did that was at a fly in where they had all of the Experimentals go do a fly by. On landing (in front of a crowd), sure enough, I hear a grinding from the tail and see my tailwheel tire go bouncing between the flying wires as it passed me. I loosened the springs to address that problem. In time, I got to where I prefer for my tailwheel steering to be more of a suggestion to turn rather than forcing a turn. Anything more feels like it's oversteering. I will probably be eliminating the springs from the tail on my KR this summer anyway. I'll at least try it that way for a while. Jeff Scott ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:11:57 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Subject: Re: KR> ground handling To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050713.221157.2544.1.jscott.pilot@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:26:21 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: > Larry Flesner wrote: > Hey, you just asked WHY, not if it actually WORKED! Reality is probably > that the tailwheel is so light that it just skitters along when you land > with it cocked off to one side, so it probably doesn't matter one bit, like > you said. On my plane the tailwheel doesn't have much to do anyway, since > it's up almost immediately after adding power, so what do I know anyway? > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama Actually, I used to own a piece of a Cub with a bunch of rookie tailwheel pilots. They had the tailwheel steering so tight that it was always skidding instead of steering while they were learning tailwheel. I finally changed it to some lilght extension springs to loosen it up so it would steer instead of skidding. Jeff Scott ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 05:06:55 +1000 From: "chris johnston" Subject: KR> kr structiure To: Message-ID: <011501c5825d$e0e80a80$5f4e20cb@chris> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Can anyone tell me just what role the glass skin on the fuselage does, the way I see it, the two side frames are nothing other than fairly simple trusses, which would be carrying all the bending loads from wings, tailplanes, cockpit loads etc. The turtle deck does nothing significant from a structural point of view, except maybe add some rigidity to the boat section, so would I be correct in saying the role of the glass is to protect the primary structure from environmental damage. If so, how much weight is it adding and if the boat section were properly weather proofed, can you do away with the glass altogether. (The theory being people were building wooden aeroplanes long before fibreglass was invented) And, does anyone have any experience in using longer undercarriage legs than shown on the plans, I would like a little extra ground clearance, but am a little concerned about the extra leverage on the spars, especially when operating of grass strips. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:37:49 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> kr structiure To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001701c58868$77283ff0$0202a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Glass on the fuselage is not necessary for the structure. However it does help prevent the wood from aging due to the elements. Paint will stick to the wood, however moisture will expand and contract the wood and cause the paint to eventually crack. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 04:58:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Elder Subject: Re: KR> Matt question on your glass panel To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050714115857.18283.qmail@web30210.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Looked into it.. But same as you, I don't know how good they would be in the sunlight. I don't know anyone that has one I can "borrow" to see if I like it. My suspicion is that they don't work well... Their brightness rating usually isn't very high (300-400nits) and most are all transmissive. Cars can get away with using them because of the shade caused by the roof. Having a canopy, especially a bubble, makes this impossible. Also, there is a BIG difference between "daylight readable" and "sunlight readable", the later of which I need. Matt --- Pitts Eric MSgt 181FW/MXOO wrote: > Have you looked at the auto DVD type screen? Not > sure how readable they are > in sunlight. > > Eric Pitts > Terre Haute IN > KR2S > http://home.att.net/~e.j.pitts/ > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------------------------- Matthew Elder Orangeburg, SC http://www.infinigral.com/melder My Airplane Project: http://www.infinigral.com/melder/flying/KR1/ ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:39:03 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> kr structiure/gear legs To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050714073903.00852e20@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:06 AM 7/7/05 +1000, you wrote: > Can anyone tell me just what role the glass skin on the fuselage does, > And, does anyone have any experience in using longer undercarriage >legs than shown on the plans, chris johnston ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Glass skin on fuselage: It's used to seal the wood. Use the lightest glass available. Wick's sells what they call "deck cloth" that is 1.4 oz or so. There are other sources with maybe lighter weight. I used it over all my layups and I'm convinced I saved a lot of fill weight. Gear legs: both Jeff Scott and I have 30" Diehl gear legs (standard Diehl gear legs are 24") and as of now neither of us have had any problems. I'm using the Diehl upper brackets and I'm assuming that Jeff does also. Jeff has several hundred hours on his and I'm at the 154 hour mark. I've been on grass at least 25 times with mine and given them a good workout. The landing on my first flight was the roughest I've made to date when I dropped it in from probably a foot off the runway. Some of the grass I've been on has not been all that smooth. It would pitch me into the air before liftoff and it would settle back on. I'm running a 60" prop and have plenty of ground clearance. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:43:16 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> archiving and the digest To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Closed-circuit comment to Dennis Mingear: when you reply to a post, please take a moment to snip or delete the post you're replying to. Some of your posts have a "tail" that is quite long... a reply to a reply to a reply. The digest version of this list is sent out whenever the digest gets to be a certain size, not a certain number of posts, and when your reply includes everything that went before... the digests get to be mostly fat and not too much meat. Thanks, and please don't take that as a slap because your interest and contributions are welcome on the list. And a comment to Mark Jones about archiving- many lists (the Matronics lists, for example) do incorporate the 'do not archive' feature and it does work. Many of us that are on other lists know that it's a 'netiquette' rule on those lists so sometimes it's done on KRNet out of habit and is certainly no worse than sending an off-topic post and NOT including 'do not archive'. But you're right... the KRNet is a lean and mean list serve machine, like "DOS" rather than "Windows", no frills. Oh, and Mark- how can you stand your kids watching you fly the airplane and not take them up? When is your personal target to allow yourself to take human passengers in the plane? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:53:21 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: KR> archiving and the digest To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C4317@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Oh, and Mark- how can you stand your kids watching you fly the airplane and not take them up? When is your personal target to allow yourself to take human passengers in the plane? The FAA requires all 40 test hours to be flown off before taking passengers or leaving your designated test area. I have not reached those 40 hours yet. My wife keeps telling the kids they can go with me in two years. So when I take them with me, we will have to hog tie her up so they can go. Hmmmmmm.......I may just hog tie her up for the fun of it.... Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:33:59 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> Stalls To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050714091058.04e69920@mail.peoplepc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:26 PM 7/13/2005, you wrote: >Dennis and netters >The reason that some planes can "lift" a wing in slow flight while >others can't has to do with a long "arm" or simply the leverage that >the rudder has due to the length of the tailboom. Not entirely true. The more dihedral the plane has, the more pronounced the yaw/roll coupling (lift a wing with rudder) will be. High wing have more effective dihedral than low wings due to the location of the center of gravity, so a KR looses a some of the potential for lifting a wing with rudder. > Although some of the trainers allow for use of the rudder alone to > lift a wing during slow flights and stalls, this is mainly done by > CFI's in training to build control confidence in the student so > that the student gets used to small inputs, and being smooth, not > because the rudder is the preferred control device. Also not entirely true. My father was a P47 pilot. He has told me that they were taught to always use rudder to pick up a wing when they were slow. In certain situations, the wing will stall abruptly toward the low wing when you try and lift it with ailerons alone. For example, you can read Delmar Benjamin's book about his experiences with the GeeBee R1 replica. In one of his early flights, it almost snap rolled on final approach when he tried to raise the wing with aileron. He said that after that event, he used rudder to lift the wing in slow flight. Don Reid - donreid "at" peoplepc.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: http://aerofoilengineering.com KR2XL construction: http://aerofoilengineering.com/KR/KR2XL.htm Aviation Surplus: http://aerofoilengineering.com/PartsListing/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 13:32:15 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: Re: KR> kr structiure/gear legs To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050714.063238.27124.83369@webmail17.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain -- larry flesner wrote: At 05:06 AM 7/7/05 +1000, you wrote: > Can anyone tell me just what role the glass skin on the fuselage does, > And, does anyone have any experience in using longer undercarriage legs >than shown on the plans, >chris johnston ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I have no glass over the plywood skin on my KR. Just primer and paint. I do get the occasional crack from the plywood grain splitting. If I was doing it over again, I would paint the fuselage with a single coat of thinned epoxy to seal it better, but still wouldn't add the weight of glass cloth. The wood itself makes a fine composite finish that shouldn't be prone to cracking after it absorbs a little bit of resin into the surface. As Larry said, he and I both have the longer Diehl gear legs, although Dan won't sell them that length anymore. His concern is for the leverage on the aluminum castings in the wing as he didn't do any drop testing with the longer legs. I haven't seen any problems after 500+ hours and ~1000 landings, some of which were more of the style of "beat the plane on the ground repeatedly until it quits flying." ;o) I use a 68" diameter prop and haven't had any ground clearance issues (i.e., the prop is still intact.) Jeff Scott _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:00:49 -0700 (PDT) From: robert clark Subject: KR> Joy of building. To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050714140049.31767.qmail@web51402.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Welcome to the joy of building a kr. My arm hairs were gone years ago! Now building a Q-200 Kr2 flyer Bob Clark Coral Springs,FL http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=334&fileid=1596796&groupid=220261&folderid=208638&curRec=1&folderview=thumbs&ck= __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:06:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> Stalls To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050714140631.33585.qmail@web51402.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thanks Don, Between your post and Collins a pretty clear picture is emerging regarding slow flight in aircraft. The use of rudder and aileron during slow flight depends on a host of issues, some subtle and some not so subtle. I'm beginning to wonder just how important washout really is in this mix with respect to low wing aircraft. Some KR's use alot of washout and it was pointed out earlier that washout can play a big roll in how ailerons behave at high angles of attack, so I wonder if this might help explain some of its slow flight handling characteristics? Denny ... --- Donald Reid wrote: > At 08:26 PM 7/13/2005, you wrote: > >Dennis and netters > >The reason that some planes can "lift" a wing in > slow flight while > >others can't has to do with a long "arm" or simply > the leverage that > >the rudder has due to the length of the tailboom. > > > Not entirely true. The more dihedral the plane has, > the more > pronounced the yaw/roll coupling (lift a wing with > rudder) will > be. High wing have more effective dihedral than low > wings due to the > location of the center of gravity, so a KR looses a > some of the > potential for lifting a wing with rudder. > > > Although some of the trainers allow for use of > the rudder alone to > > lift a wing during slow flights and stalls, this > is mainly done by > > CFI's in training to build control confidence in > the student so > > that the student gets used to small inputs, and > being smooth, not > > because the rudder is the preferred control > device. > > Also not entirely true. My father was a P47 pilot. > He has told me > that they were taught to always use rudder to pick > up a wing when > they were slow. In certain situations, the wing > will stall abruptly > toward the low wing when you try and lift it with > ailerons > alone. For example, you can read Delmar Benjamin's > book about his > experiences with the GeeBee R1 replica. In one of > his early flights, > it almost snap rolled on final approach when he > tried to raise the > wing with aileron. He said that after that event, > he used rudder to > lift the wing in slow flight. > > > > > Don Reid - donreid "at" peoplepc.com > Bumpass, Va > > Visit my web sites at: > > AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer > Program: > http://aerofoilengineering.com > > KR2XL construction: > http://aerofoilengineering.com/KR/KR2XL.htm > Aviation Surplus: > http://aerofoilengineering.com/PartsListing/Airparts.htm > EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org > Ultralights: http://usua250.org > VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:08:26 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> kr structiure/gear legs To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002901c5887d$83a58700$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Jeff Scott wrote: > As Larry said, he and I both have the longer Diehl gear legs, although Dan > won't sell them that length anymore. His concern is for the leverage on > the aluminum castings in the wing as he didn't do any drop testing with > the longer legs. I haven't seen any problems after 500+ hours and ~1000 > landings, some of which were more of the style of "beat the plane on the > ground repeatedly until it quits flying." ;o) I use a 68" diameter prop > and haven't had any ground clearance issues (i.e., the prop is still > intact.)< I don't have much KR flying experience, but I DID test the landing gear to 5 g's on my first landing! So there's a data point for you. If I remember correctly, I saw somewhere that Dan tested them to 3.5g's, so I just pushed the envelope a little further for him. Marty Roberts ain't got nuthin' on me... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:12:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> archiving and the digest To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050714141213.62729.qmail@web51404.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Understood Oscar, since this varies from list to list you never know, but typically on other lists I snip replies and I'll start doing that here also. Denny .. --- Oscar Zuniga wrote: > Closed-circuit comment to Dennis Mingear: when you > reply to a post, please > take a moment to snip or delete the post you're > replying to. "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:21:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> kr structiure To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050714142117.21895.qmail@web51406.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 You can get some very light cloth from these guys. http://www.cstsales.com/WovenESGlass.htm Does anyone have a cheaper source for 0.6 ounce cloth? This is a supply house for model airplane guys and maybe this stuff is cheaper somewhere else. Denny ... --- Orma wrote: > Glass on the fuselage is not necessary for the > structure. "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:13:33 -0800 From: "Al Friesen" Subject: Re: KR> First passenger To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001a01c588b0$827b2fa0$8bf451cf@alk1e9f7i3pcg3> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Mark, If the fly was airborn in the cabin was the A/C weight reduced? I had to ask as the characters don't hit the windshield of the car when I hit the brakes. :) Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "Corvaircraft" ; "KR Net" Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 6:24 PM Subject: KR> First passenger > This evening I made a flight with my first passenger. The passenger got in > my plane and hid till I was up around 4000' and then he appeared and > landed > right on the top of my control stick. That darn house fly made me feel > like > Charles Lindberg when he crossed the Atlantic and had a fly for a > passenger. > The additional weight of this passenger was not a factor. Other than the > annoying buzzing around the cockpit, I could not tell he was in the plane. > Another great flight!!!!!!!!! > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.15/49 - Release Date: 7/14/2005 > > ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:44:01 -0400 From: Martha Crawford Subject: KR> Re: hog air To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed hi netters I was surfing the net and came upon hogairs's site. what do the rest of you think about this. Keith Crawford martha@simerson.net www.u-r-on.net/~crawfords ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:29:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> Re: hog air To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050715022914.78356.qmail@web51405.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Talking about motorcycles can be very emotional at times, but here I go anyway. The Harley Davidson motor is good for what it was designed for, cruising down the road turning moderate rpm's. The motors are heavy for the amount of power that they produce and very expensive too. People are always surprised by the horsepower that they produce in stock form as measured on a dynometer. Here's a link to one of the best Harley performance sites out there that gives many dyno runs by motor type. Just click on the motor that you are interested in and then scroll down the page for the dyno results. These tests were run to measure stock horsepower prior to adding performance modifications to the motor. Additional dyno runs are shown to give you an idea of just how much horsepower various mods provide over a stock motor. The link; http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hplist00.htm If you go to the home page of this site and scroll down you will see a series of horsepower ratings on the left hand side of the page with brief descriptions to the right of what was done to the motor to get additional power out of it. Denny ... --- Martha Crawford wrote: > hi netters > > I was surfing the net and came upon hogairs's site. > what do the rest of you think about this. > Keith Crawford > martha@simerson.net > www.u-r-on.net/~crawfords > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 23:13:39 -0400 From: "Sean Caranna" Subject: KR> RE: hog air To: Message-ID: <000401c588eb$329d9f50$6400a8c0@Warrior1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" One thing to remember when looking at Harley dyno numbers is that they are showing HP and Torque ratings at the rear wheel in 5th gear. After the Primary drive, clutch, transmission, and drive chain or belt. My 2003 Twin-Cam 88 C.I. Harley when stock came out at 64 HP at 5400 RPM, again at the rear wheel. The same bike made 76 HP at the crank with stock exhaust and air cleaner. After changing only mufflers and switching to a K&N air cleaner I made 77 RWHP (rear wheel HP) at 5200RPM, then 6 more (83) RWHP once I added a new ignition and tuned the stock 38.5mm CV carb. I have no problem believing Hog-Air's claim that their 95 C.I. engine makes 108 crank HP at 211 lbs installed. http://www.hog-air.com/motor-page.htm My engine dyno runs were all done at Daytona Harley except for the one at the crank, it was done at AMI (American Motorcycle Institute) http://www.amiwrench.com/ All of this said, the HD motor can NOT compete with the Corvair on price. At $9500 for a 108HP engine I'd say you get a lot more suck, squeeze, BANG, blow for the buck from the Corvair. Sean C. -----Original Message----- >Date: Thu Jul 14 19:29:13 PDT 2005 >From: "Dennis Mingear" >Subject: KR> RE: hog air >To: "KRnet" > >Talking about motorcycles can be very emotional at >times, but here I go anyway. > >The Harley Davidson motor is good for what it was >designed for, cruising down the road turning moderate >rpm's. The motors are heavy for the amount of power >that they produce and very expensive too. People are >always surprised by the horsepower that they produce >in stock form as measured on a dynometer. > >Here's a link to one of the best Harley performance >sites out there that gives many dyno runs by motor >type. Just click on the motor that you are interested >in and then scroll down the page for the dyno results. >These tests were run to measure stock horsepower prior >to adding performance modifications to the motor. >Additional dyno runs are shown to give you an idea of >just how much horsepower various mods provide over a >stock motor. > >The link; > >http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hplist00.htm > >If you go to the home page of this site and scroll >down you will see a series of horsepower ratings on >the left hand side of the page with brief descriptions >to the right of what was done to the motor to get >additional power out of it. > >Denny ... ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 22:19:51 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> The Citation Won To: "Corvaircraft" , "KR Net" Message-ID: <006101c588ec$106c0060$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This is another flying experience I would like to share. After work today, I went to the airport to fly from Hartford (HXF) to Waukesha (UES) which is 25 miles south of Hartford. I was going there to look at a hanger where I will be keeping my KR. It is only ten minutes from my home instead of the 35 I drive now. Anyway, when I called in for clearance to land, the controller asked what speed experimental I was and I replied "140 mph fast" as that is what I was indicating at 6 miles out. She instructed me to report a 2 mile final and cleared to land. I was kind of hazy and I noticed there was a plane holding short of runway 10. When I was at 4 miles out she started giving the Citation his IFR clearance and instructed him cleared for take off. The Citation started pulling out on the runway in front of me as I was now 2 miles and I called in a position report. All the while I had my landing lights on and strobes flashing. The Citation really was taking his time and I was at one mile and he had not started accelerating. He began to roll and I was 1/2 mile from touchdown. The controller was saying nothing and all I could think of was all that turbulence behind the Citation. This was all too close for me so I called the tower and reported I was turning off to the south to avoid the wake turbulence. That is when she started getting excited wanting to know what my intentions were. Heck, I wanted to know what hers were for allowing us to get so close. Anyway, I circled around and finally landed. She informed me that my radio was scratchy and unreadable. That's funny because yesterday it was perfect. I checked out the hanger, got some fuel from the truck and got clearance to taxi out and take off. Just another day in the life of my KR. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 20:20:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> RE: hog air To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050715032029.33770.qmail@web51407.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 All thats true, the dyno info I provided is rear wheel power. But also remember that the installation package from Hogair weighs 211 pounds. Thats alot to carry around for the horse power derived. And I'm still waiting to see how they work long term. Denny ... --- Sean Caranna wrote: > One thing to remember when looking at Harley dyno > numbers is that they are > showing HP and Torque ratings at the rear wheel in > 5th gear. After the > Primary drive, clutch, transmission, and drive chain > or belt. > > My 2003 Twin-Cam 88 C.I. Harley when stock came out > at 64 HP at 5400 RPM, > again at the rear wheel. > The same bike made 76 HP at the crank with stock > exhaust and air cleaner. > > After changing only mufflers and switching to a K&N > air cleaner I made 77 > RWHP (rear wheel HP) at 5200RPM, then 6 more (83) > RWHP once I added a new > ignition and tuned the stock 38.5mm CV carb. I have > no problem believing > Hog-Air's claim that their 95 C.I. engine makes 108 > crank HP at 211 lbs > installed. http://www.hog-air.com/motor-page.htm > > My engine dyno runs were all done at Daytona Harley > except for the one at > the crank, it was done at AMI (American Motorcycle > Institute) > http://www.amiwrench.com/ > > All of this said, the HD motor can NOT compete with > the Corvair on price. > At $9500 for a 108HP engine I'd say you get a lot > more suck, squeeze, BANG, > blow for the buck from the Corvair. > > Sean C. > > > > -----Original Message----- > >Date: Thu Jul 14 19:29:13 PDT 2005 > >From: "Dennis Mingear" > >Subject: KR> RE: hog air > >To: "KRnet" > > > >Talking about motorcycles can be very emotional at > >times, but here I go anyway. > > > >The Harley Davidson motor is good for what it was > >designed for, cruising down the road turning > moderate > >rpm's. The motors are heavy for the amount of power > >that they produce and very expensive too. People > are > >always surprised by the horsepower that they > produce > >in stock form as measured on a dynometer. > > > >Here's a link to one of the best Harley performance > >sites out there that gives many dyno runs by motor > >type. Just click on the motor that you are > interested > >in and then scroll down the page for the dyno > results. > >These tests were run to measure stock horsepower > prior > >to adding performance modifications to the motor. > >Additional dyno runs are shown to give you an idea > of > >just how much horsepower various mods provide over > a > >stock motor. > > > >The link; > > > >http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hplist00.htm > > > >If you go to the home page of this site and scroll > >down you will see a series of horsepower ratings on > >the left hand side of the page with brief > descriptions > >to the right of what was done to the motor to get > >additional power out of it. > > > >Denny ... > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 271 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================