From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 274 Date: 7/15/2005 9:00:20 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. BRS report (Jack Cooper) 2. Re: Re: brakes (FIXERJONES@aol.com) 3. Re: Re: brakes (FIXERJONES@aol.com) 4. Re: Re: brakes (Joseph H. Horton) 5. BRS & KR Installation (Mark Jones) 6. Re: ailerons (Al Friesen) 7. Re: Experimental Aviation (patrusso) 8. Re: ailerons (FIXERJONES@aol.com) 9. cooling a Corvair in a Kr. (haroldwoods) 10. RE: Spam: KR> cooling a Corvair in a Kr. (Mark Jones) 11. Re: cooling a Corvair in a Kr. (Mark Langford) 12. RE KR structure (Joe Beyer) 13. Wire mesh filter (Dan Heath) 14. Re: BRS & KR Installation (Barry Kruyssen) 15. RE: Wire mesh filter (wilder_jeff Wilder) 16. Re: Wire mesh filter (Mark Jones) 17. center thrust line (wilder_jeff Wilder) 18. Re: center thrust line (Mark Langford) 19. Re: center thrust line (jscott.pilot@juno.com) 20. Re: center thrust line (Mark Langford) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:55:53 -0400 From: "Jack Cooper" Subject: KR> BRS report To: "Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft" , "KR builders and pilots" Message-ID: <410-220057515165553453@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII An interesting story about deploying a recovery parachute. http://www.avweb.com/news/features/190126-1.html Jack Cooper kr2cooper@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:58:29 EDT From: FIXERJONES@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Re: brakes To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <1de.3f913844.30094535@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" also if you epoxy 3/16 into 1/4 line,,also use a braded wire & tie a knot at one end & run the wire thru the 3/16 tube& thru the1/4 line all the way to where it comes thru inside & have someone pull the wire while you feed & push the tubing from the other end,,, steve jones ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:59:27 EDT From: FIXERJONES@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Re: brakes To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20d.4ef7145.3009456f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" amen,,,,built to service :-) steve jones ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 13:28:35 -0400 From: "Joseph H. Horton" Subject: Re: KR> Re: brakes To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050715.132835.3352.6.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Guys thanks for all the quick replies. I did some quick searching and talked to aircraft spruce and a parker vender. I was thinking backwards between the 3/16" and the 1/4" tubing sizes. I could have pulled the 3/16" in with no problem as I have done it once with the 1/4" tube. In any case I ordered the nn-4-062 that Steve suggested. It actually does both suggestions. It takes care of heat and pressure of 200 deg. and 500psi. It will go back through my original route and it also becomes very close to the I.D. size of 3/16" tube that has been suggested for more braking pressure. Thanks again, Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA. joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:53:48 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> BRS & KR Installation To: "KR Net \(E-mail\)" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C4328@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The proper way to install a BRS in a KR is to mount the pod inside/under the turtle deck directly behind the center of the seat back. You will need to cut a hole in the top of the turtle deck for the rocket and parachute to exit through. This hole will be glassed over with one layer of very lightweight deck cloth. That will allow the ejection to break through and exit the airplane. There are three straps which will need to be attached to the KR as a harness for the chute. The tail strap will run along the top of the turtle deck down to the tail cone where it should be attached to the forward horizontal spar. The two forward straps will work their way forward down the fuselage side across the top of the stub wing and attach to the forward spar at the rear WAF. The best way to do all of this is to install the harness as you build the plane. That way, you can form channels for the straps to lay in. If you do it after the fact, the straps will be visible after they are glassed over with lightweight deck cloth. In either case the straps must be protected from epoxy so it will not affect the integrity of the straps. Upon deployment of the chute, the straps will rip right through the deck cloth and hold the KR level as you descend. The installation is simple if done while building and is good life insurance for around three grand. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:35:46 -0800 From: "Al Friesen" Subject: Re: KR> ailerons To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002701c5897c$c7957ce0$8bf451cf@alk1e9f7i3pcg3> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Lee, Wrap it in glass and the ailerone as well. Mine had to be done. When tightening the pushrod to ailerone bolt the horn rocked a bit which gave me a warning. Not nice when off the ground. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Van Dyke" To: "KRnet" Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 9:18 PM Subject: KR> ailerons > Netters > > Per the plans, there is no glass wrapped around the rear portion of > the > wing sealing the wood for the aileron. Am I correct???. Has anybody had > a problem with that wood coming loose fron the foam?? > If you were me and wanted to secure the wood a little better, what would > be the easiest and best way to get it done??? > > Lee Van Dyke > Mesa AZ > Lee@vandyke5.com > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.16/50 - Release Date: 7/15/2005 > > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:19:29 -0400 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> Experimental Aviation To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001d01c5897a$81d2f9f0$27a772d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Ron Experimental is both an adjective and a verb in the KR building experience. I CAN use materials just laying about if I am willing to experiment. My spruce is home grown here in Vermont, not sitka. My foam is from the local lumber yard, blue construction material, my plywood and resin came from the boat builders supply houses, my plexi canopy from Home Depot, my tail wheel from a childs roller blade, my main wheels really did come from a go cart supplier...wow, I can go on and on, such as engine almost straight from the VW bus, single ignition....blah, blah. IF YOU ARE WORKING ON A LIMITED BUDGET, THE BASIC KR DESIGN IDEA IS A WONDERFUL LESSON IN KR BUILDING EXPERIENCE. IT TAUGHT ME TO INNOVATE JUST AS RAND AND ROBINSON DID ON THEIR ORIGINAL Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 10:34 AM Subject: KR> Experimental Aviation > > The experiment in "EXPERIMENTAL" is allowing amateurs to build > airplanes, not a license to use just any design or material you might > have laying around. Ron Freiberger > > mail to ronandmartha@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:23:56 EDT From: FIXERJONES@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> ailerons To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <1d9.40757550.3009755c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" when building my ailerons,i fit the wood spar to the cutout in the glass& foam so the wood fit the angle of the shape& flush to the cutout recessing the inter layer of glass to fit flush with the inner surface of the spar wood. mine where diel skins, after a perfect fit was made, i beveled the outer edge all the way around the outer spar edge at a 45 degree angle to make a 3/16 fillet area when the spar is installed flush. then i sanded the inner primmeter of the glass for a good bond & also sanded out the foam core for a fillet area to fill with flox,then i wet all surfaces with epoxy & fill the sanded areas with flox, insert the spar flush to squeese into the applied flox & tape over the spar to the outer surface to hold into place, then fill the outer beveled out area with flox &squegy folx into the bevel area till full & flush fith the outer surface. this way it comes out smooth & no faring of glass on the outer surfaces,slick! steve jones,n121kr, venice fl ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:39:03 -0400 From: "haroldwoods" Subject: KR> cooling a Corvair in a Kr. To: Message-ID: <017301c5897d$3ce4ebc0$0201a8c0@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Netters. A friend in our local RAA club installed a corvair in his homebuilt. He had cooling problems. Any time he went faster than 80 mph his engine got hot. He tried many things ( He is a professional engineer), but finally gave up and sold it. Is cooling normally a problem? If not, what is the secret? Regards, Harold Woods, Orillia, ON Canada haroldwoods@rogers.com ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:53:20 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: Spam: KR> cooling a Corvair in a Kr. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C432A@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The temp reading you get depends entirely on where you take the reading. I would be willing to bet his was pre-cooler which will yield high temp readings around 220°. Someone most likely got a perfectly good engine from him. Did he ever say what temps he got? Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of haroldwoods Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 3:39 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Spam: KR> cooling a Corvair in a Kr. Hi Netters. A friend in our local RAA club installed a corvair in his homebuilt. He had cooling problems. Any time he went faster than 80 mph his engine got hot. He tried many things ( He is a professional engineer), but finally gave up and sold it. Is cooling normally a problem? If not, what is the secret? Regards, Harold Woods, Orillia, ON Canada haroldwoods@rogers.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 17:41:38 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> cooling a Corvair in a Kr. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008301c5898e$5cb67570$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Harold Woods wrote: > A friend in our local RAA club installed a corvair in his homebuilt. > He had cooling problems. Any time he went faster than 80 mph his engine got hot. He tried many things ( He is a professional engineer), but finally gave up and sold it. Is cooling normally a problem? If not, what is the secret?< CHTs or oil temp? Cooling is not a problem with a Vair. Most people just baffle it like any other engine to force whatever comes in the inlets to go through the heads and cylinders, as well as through the oil cooler (in it's stock location) and that's plenty good enough. Some of us have remoted the cooler and run a 2" Scat line to it, and that's fine too. My oil temp is a little on the low side, so I may decrease it to a 1.5" Scat line. One effect that some people never consider is that if you have an inlet on the bottom that is open to the underside of the cowling, you are pressurizing the bottom of the engine, which impedes the flow from the top side, which can cause overheating. The only inlet I have on the bottom is sealed and runs right into the airbox. I also have NACA ducts on the bottom that help suck air out of the bottom of the cowling, as well as drag reduction, but most Corvair installations don't go to this kind of trouble, and cool just fine. The guy may be an engineer, but I can't imagine why he couldn't figure out what his problem was... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:40:57 -0700 From: "Joe Beyer" Subject: KR> RE KR structure To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message: 3 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 05:06:55 +1000 From: "chris johnston" Subject: KR> kr structiure To: Message-ID: <011501c5825d$e0e80a80$5f4e20cb@chris> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >The turtle deck does nothing significant from >a structural point of view, except maybe add some rigidity to the boat >section, It prevents the fuselage from twisting, adds torsional strength. >And, does anyone have any experience in using longer undercarriage legs >than shown on the plans I desinged my own gear which is taller. Send an email and I can send a jpeg photo. >can you do >away with the glass altogether. (The theory being people were building >wooden aeroplanes long before fibreglass was invented) I used 1.8 oz. dacron on my wood which is tacked on with fabric cement (poly tack) around the edges and the fabric is heated with an iron to taughten it up. Then I used polybrush to seal it. That protects the bare wood. ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 19:34:24 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Wire mesh filter To: Message-ID: <42D84800.000009.02208@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am looking for a "wire mesh" filter material, sort of like is in a gascolator, only heavier. I want to use it as a base for my air filter to the carb. It needs to be large enough to be able to get a 3" diameter piece Anybody know where I can get such a thing? See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:24:36 +1000 From: "Barry Kruyssen" Subject: Re: KR> BRS & KR Installation To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006001c5899c$f1ea8830$6906070a@technologyonecorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original It matters not where a Ballistic Chute is mounted in the aircraft as long as the weights and balances is right. There are 2 lines of thought for attaching a Ballistic Chute to the aircraft when deployed. 1. As Mark described below, hanging and landing in the flying attitude. 2. As I have attached mine, to the top of the engine mount. This will cause the aircraft to hang tail down giving a crumple zone right up to the back of the seats (hopefully no further). The passenger's spines are fully supported (I have a head rest) on impact, less chance of back injury. The expensive parts of the aircraft (engine, undercarriage and instruments) have a better chance of being re-useable. Downside is that you can only do this with a timber or composite prop as they will be destroyed by the chutes straps, therefore cannot steer during descent, cannot see where you are going (actually this may be a good thing :-) My Ballistic Chute is to be used for the following reasons. 1. Structural failure. 2. Mid air collision. 3. I'm incapacitated. 4. Just prior to stalling into the tree in forced landing over tiger country. 5. Maybe if a forced landing in a short field requiring me stop urgently (2.5 seconds to be fully deployed.) see where I mounted mine http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/grs_ballistic_chute.htm regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia RAA 19-3873 kr2@BigPond.com http://www.users.bigpond.com/kr2/kr2.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" > The proper way to install a BRS in a KR is to mount the pod > inside/under the turtle deck directly behind the center of the seat > back. You will need to cut a hole in the top of the turtle deck for > the rocket and parachute to exit through. This hole will be glassed > over with one layer of very lightweight deck cloth. That will allow > the ejection to break through and exit the airplane. There are three > straps which will need to be attached to the KR as a harness for the > chute. The tail strap will run along the top of the turtle deck down > to the tail cone where it should be attached to the forward horizontal > spar. The two forward straps will work their way forward down the > fuselage side across the top of the stub wing and attach to the > forward spar at the rear WAF. The best way to do all of this is to > install the harness as you build the plane. That way, you can form > channels for the straps to lay in. If you do it after the fact, the > straps will be visible after they are glassed over with lightweight > deck cloth. In either case the straps must be protected from epoxy so > it will not affect the integrity of the straps. Upon deployment of the > chute, the straps will rip right through the deck cloth and hold the > KR level as you descend. The installation is simple if done while > building and is good life insurance for around three grand. > ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 20:57:16 -0600 From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" Subject: RE: KR> Wire mesh filter To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dan, I dont know if this is what you are looking for... but go to the hardware store.. where they sell hoods for stoves. They have a metal mesh filter that is used on the hoods over the stove. You may have to cut it to the shape you want .. but the one I bougth was about 10x12.. I think I paid about 10.00 for it. Hope that helps ya out. -Jeff >From: "Dan Heath" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: >Subject: KR> Wire mesh filter >Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 19:34:24 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) > >I am looking for a "wire mesh" filter material, sort of like is in a >gascolator, only heavier. I want to use it as a base for my air filter >to the carb. It needs to be large enough to be able to get a 3" >diameter piece > Anybody know where I can get such a thing? > >See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering >See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a >time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building >has expired. >Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:02:47 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Wire mesh filter To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002201c589b2$dbac18c0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dan, Go to Wal Mart and look in the kitchen utensil section. They have all size stainless steel wire mesh strainers and sifters. The mesh is most likely going to be rounded but when you cut the wire out you can flatten it and shape it to what you need. They only cost a couple of bucks. I did this before I installed my airbox and flew with this for a while. A cheap resource. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 6:34 PM Subject: KR> Wire mesh filter > I am looking for a "wire mesh" filter material, sort of like is in a > gascolator, only heavier. I want to use it as a base for my air filter to > the carb. It needs to be large enough to be able to get a 3" diameter piece > Anybody know where I can get such a thing? > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building > has expired. > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:29:44 -0600 From: "wilder_jeff Wilder" Subject: KR> center thrust line To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Can someone tell me about how far from the top of the firewall can I find the center of the thrust line. ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:40:23 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> center thrust line To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00ed01c589b8$19544cb0$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Jeff Wilder wrote: > Can someone tell me about how far from the top of the firewall can I find > the center of the thrust line. I don't know how tall your firewall is, but the thrust line is defined (if you can find it) as the top of the upper longerons, although I'm not entirely sure that's clearly stated anywhere. I figured it out from side views. Older newsletters mention 2.375" below the top of the upper longerons a time or two for different engines, and that's where mine is, because the Corvair fits best there... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:50:46 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Subject: Re: KR> center thrust line To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050715.215046.1396.3.jscott.pilot@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:40:23 -0500 "Mark Langford" writes: > Jeff Wilder wrote: > > > Can someone tell me about how far from the top of the firewall can > I find > > the center of the thrust line. > > I don't know how tall your firewall is, but the thrust line is > defined (if > you can find it) as the top of the upper longerons, although I'm > not > entirely sure that's clearly stated anywhere. I figured it out from > side > views. Older newsletters mention 2.375" below the top of the upper > longerons a time or two for different engines, and that's where mine > is, > because the Corvair fits best there... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama The drawing I have from RR for their O-200 engine mount clearly states that the engine CL is 1 1/2" below the top longeron. In this case CL is drawn as the thrust line and references the top of the upper longeron in the drawing. Of coursre you'll probably see it clearly stated as something different on other drawings. From previous discussions that should be in the archives, you'll find that people have it all over the place, but nobody seems to notice any ill effects from it not being exactly according to any of the specs. Jeff Scott ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:58:43 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> center thrust line To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <010101c589ba$a8b84c60$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Jeff Scott wrote: > The drawing I have from RR for their O-200 engine mount clearly states > that the engine CL is 1 1/2" below the top longeron. I knew there was something missing from my plans! If I'd only known that I had to order every stinkin' prefab part to get the little details, I'd have been way ahead... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 274 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================