From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 309 Date: 8/16/2005 5:41:55 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Epoxy (Peter Drake) 2. RE: RE: KR> Foam (Ulinski, Val) 3. Re: Re: KR> Epoxy (Steven Phillabaum) 4. kr2s for sale in michigan (Dave Jeltema) 5. Re: Epoxy (Mikensandystff@aol.com) 6. Re: Epoxy (Ron Eason) 7. Re: Epoxy (Peter Drake) 8. aileron balance weight construction. (harold woods) 9. RE: RE: KR> Foam (Ulinski, Val) 10. Re: Intake manifold (patrusso) 11. KR2Sport - FLAME ON (richardanddonya@cox.net) 12. Re: KR2Sport - FLAME ON (Curt Britt Jr) 13. Re: Re: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON (richardanddonya@cox.net) 14. Re: Re: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 15. Re: KR2Sport - FLAME ON (Steve Bray) 16. RE: Re: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON (Richard and Donya Rankin) 17. Re: Re: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON (Mark Langford) 18. LSA alternative (Colin & Bev Rainey) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 10:32:30 +0100 From: "Peter Drake" Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002e01c5a245$6cee5910$0201a8c0@PETER> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I tried hot glue last night. AAAAAAARGH! I'm using Blue Styrofoam - it melts it! I like the sound of Elmers polyurethane glue only we dont get Elmers here in the UK. So I'm looking for an equivalent available here. Any ideas? Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 6:45 PM Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy >I used "Elmer's" ultimate glue. It's polyurethane. It's water activated >and easy to work with. Like all products in this category it does have >some draw backs though as the bonding seam is a little hard to sand >as compared to sanding the bonded foam. Overall though I have been >very pleased with the results. > The best thing about it is that you can find it at any good lumber and > building supply store for about $13.00 to $14.00 dollars U.S.(16 fl oz.) > I found > it here in Louisiana at "Home Depot". > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > --- > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 07:49:37 -0400 From: "Ulinski, Val" Subject: RE: RE: KR> Foam To: , "KRnet" Message-ID: <8F764B1D9C290D4686E0681ED0B1A4425BE56D@chnaemail.chna.mc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Brian. I'll look for you on Comedy Central... good stuff! -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:58 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: RE: KR> Foam I think I have found the ultimate solution, stale cake or bread. It is rigid, light weight, low cost, easy to shape, and much better on the environment than urethane foam. Use rum cake and we will all be singing the "I Lub Sandbling" song. Now if I could just find an AS5048 cake pan and a real big oven... ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Reply-To: KRnet Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 8:23:03 -0500 >Have you compared the weight of the two foams? I think the rigidity of >the foam is important. You could not put on one layer of glass on the >wings, then remove the foam and expect the properties to be the same. >This is a "Sandwich" construction, which, to me, means that the stuff >in the middle is integral to the properties of the end product. > >Your result WILL vary. > >Dan. > > >From: "Ulinski, Val" >Date: 2005/08/15 Mon AM 07:07:12 CDT >To: "KRnet" >Subject: RE: KR> Foam > >Thanks Larry. I am familiar rigid foams. My question is how much >rigidity of the foam is actually required, once the carbon fiber or >glass is cured. The minicell foam is semi rigid, flexible, can't be >broken and springs back when compressed. It has 2/3's of the >compression strength of the same 2# polystyrene (pink stuff they by at >Home Depot) > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On >Behalf Of larry flesner >Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:52 PM >To: KRnet >Subject: Re: KR> Foam > >> >>I am looking at 2# Minicell foam. They tell me it is used for cushions >>but I see it as a good foam for construction as well Anyone have >>experience with it? VUlinski >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >It sounds to me like you are looking at a "flexable" foam if it is used >for cushions. The foam used in constructing a KR is a "rigid" foam >,and when 1 or 2 inches thick, will flex very little without breaking. >The foam used in the KR will not compress without damage. > >Could you give additional info on what exactly you are looking at? > >Larry Flesner > > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >_____________________________________________________________________ >Disclaimer >This email transmission is confidential and intended solely for the >person or organization to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or disseminate the information, or take any action in reliance of it. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of any organisation or employer. If you have received this message in error, do not open any attachment but please notify the sender (above) deleting this message from your system. Please rely on your own virus check no responsibility is taken by the sender for any damage rising out of any bug or virus infection. >_____________________________________________________________________ >Cross Hüller North America has implemented a policy such that this message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit >http://www.messagelabs.com/stats.asp > > >_____________________________________________________________________ >Disclaimer >This email transmission is confidential and intended solely for the >person or organization to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or disseminate the information, or take any action in reliance of it. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of any organisation or employer. If you have received this message in error, do not open any attachment but please notify the sender (above) deleting this message from your system. Please rely on your own virus check no responsibility is taken by the sender for any damage rising out of any bug or virus infection. >_____________________________________________________________________ >Cross Hüller North America has implemented a policy such that this message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit >http://www.messagelabs.com/stats.asp > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mail.engalt.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _____________________________________________________________________ Disclaimer This email transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or disseminate the information, or take any action in reliance of it. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of any organisation or employer. If you have received this message in error, do not open any attachment but please notify the sender (above) deleting this message from your system. Please rely on your own virus check no responsibility is taken by the sender for any damage rising out of any bug or virus infection. _____________________________________________________________________ Cross Hüller North America has implemented a policy such that this message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.messagelabs.com/stats.asp _____________________________________________________________________ Disclaimer This email transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or disseminate the information, or take any action in reliance of it. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of any organisation or employer. If you have received this message in error, do not open any attachment but please notify the sender (above) deleting this message from your system. Please rely on your own virus check no responsibility is taken by the sender for any damage rising out of any bug or virus infection. _____________________________________________________________________ Cross Hüller North America has implemented a policy such that this message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.messagelabs.com/stats.asp ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 8:04:05 -0400 From: Steven Phillabaum Subject: Re: Re: KR> Epoxy To: KRnet Message-ID: <48vift$15oo36p@mxip07a.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Peter, Try the 5 minute epoxy available at your hardware store. It comes in a double suringe and easy to mix. 5 minutes after setting the foam in you are ready to work on the piece. Good luck > > From: "Peter Drake" > Date: 2005/08/16 Tue AM 05:32:30 EDT > To: "KRnet" > Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy > > I tried hot glue last night. AAAAAAARGH! I'm using Blue Styrofoam - it > melts > it! Steven Phillabaum KR2S; 5048; corvair; Auburn, Alabama ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 08:32:20 -0400 From: "Dave Jeltema" Subject: KR> kr2s for sale in michigan To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed this kr2s has got to go http://www.geocities.com/grasshopity/kr2.html Thank You Dave Jeltema ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:28:11 EDT From: Mikensandystff@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Peter, I've contacted Elmer's and was only able to leave a message on their phone answering machine. They have a terrible web site in regards to their information about distribution. I think as big a product that Elmer's has been here it surely should have an outlet there. If I get a response from them I will pass it on to you. This glue has great gapping qualities and holding power for foam to foam and foam to wood or even foam and wood to metals. It is however considered non structural. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 08:58:07 -0500 From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001901c5a26a$886439b0$6601a8c0@CADENGINEERING> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Gorilla is another manufacture of this product. Any product that says it's Urethane. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:28 AM Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy > Peter, I've contacted Elmer's and was only able to leave a message on > their > phone answering machine. They have a terrible web site in regards to their > information about distribution. I think as big a product that Elmer's has > been > here it surely should have an outlet there. If I get a response from them > I > will pass it on to you. This glue has great gapping qualities and holding > power > for foam to foam and foam to wood or even foam and wood to metals. It is > however considered non structural. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:17:43 +0100 From: "Peter Drake" Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy To: "Ron Eason" , "KRnet" Message-ID: <002901c5a275$a677f580$0201a8c0@PETER> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Ron and All Thank you all for your kind suggestions. It has been very helpful. I have found a source of Gorilla Polyurethane glue and have ordered some! Thanks All Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Eason" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy > Gorilla is another manufacture of this product. Any product that says > it's Urethane. Ron > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:28 AM > Subject: Re: KR> Epoxy > > >> Peter, I've contacted Elmer's and was only able to leave a message on >> their phone answering machine. They have a terrible web site in >> regards to their >> information about distribution. I think as big a product that Elmer's has >> been >> here it surely should have an outlet there. If I get a response from them >> I >> will pass it on to you. This glue has great gapping qualities and >> holding >> power >> for foam to foam and foam to wood or even foam and wood to metals. It is >> however considered non structural. >> _______________________________________ >> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > --- > > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 11:56:21 -0400 From: "harold woods" Subject: KR> aileron balance weight construction. To: Message-ID: <001b01c5a27b$0c6eeb00$0501a8c0@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Netters, I enjoyed the photographs on Jerry & Dan's Aircraft Factory covering the aileron construction. May I suggest that instead of melting lead and pouring it into a mold, you consider making a Styrofoam plug, the size of the weight. put a layer of fiberglass on it. After it is hard, pour gasoline onto the Styrofoam to remove it. Now instead of hot lead just pour in lead shot mixed with automobile wheel weight, scrap lead pieces etc. (something like making concrete,(leadcrete LOL). Now if the correct weight had been used , pour onto the lead a fluid epoxy mix. It will fill the voids and lock the pieces of epoxy in place. You could have imbedded the aluminum arm in to the mix but put some holes and a bolt in it to act as an anchor in the leadcrete.Finish the outside of the balance weight ready for painting. Do a trial balance. If it is too heavy, drill out some of the lead and cover the hole with a foam plug and micro. I would be remiss if I did not issue the warning about the lead. Lead dust from sanding is very dangerous from a health point of view. It is after the small particles oxidize that the fun begins. If you inhale this oxide or get it into your body by any means you will inherit the nasty toxic effect of lead poisoning. Wear a mask , vacuum up all of the lead dust around the workshop, wash your hands. After all, you do want to pass your medical in the future, to fly your creation. Good luck Regards, Harold Woods Orillia,ON.Canada. haroldwoods@rogers.com ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:13:23 -0400 From: "Ulinski, Val" Subject: RE: RE: KR> Foam To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <8F764B1D9C290D4686E0681ED0B1A4425BE573@chnaemail.chna.mc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Steve. Thanks for the advice. I have been messing around with this since I bought the plans in 1980. The wheel is already redesigned a bit and I don't mind a little more. I have had many a conversation with our local EAA chapter and others about this subject and as of yet no one has come back with a definitive answer. A lot of "that's interesting" statements, but nothing to completely discourage me from continuing. Guess it is the Engineer in me Val -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+vulinski=crosshuller.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+vulinski=crosshuller.com@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Steven Phillabaum Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 9:53 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: RE: KR> Foam Just build as per plans or look into the long list of discussions concerning Foam on the net. You are going to spend a long time building. You don't want to waste it re designing the wheel. But I will be glad to look at the results you get from your research. Looking forward to hearing your input. Steven Phillabaum KR2S; 5048; corvair; Auburn, Alabama _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _____________________________________________________________________ Disclaimer This email transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or disseminate the information, or take any action in reliance of it. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of any organisation or employer. If you have received this message in error, do not open any attachment but please notify the sender (above) deleting this message from your system. Please rely on your own virus check no responsibility is taken by the sender for any damage rising out of any bug or virus infection. _____________________________________________________________________ Cross Hüller North America has implemented a policy such that this message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.messagelabs.com/stats.asp _____________________________________________________________________ Disclaimer This email transmission is confidential and intended solely for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy, distribute or disseminate the information, or take any action in reliance of it. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of any organisation or employer. If you have received this message in error, do not open any attachment but please notify the sender (above) deleting this message from your system. Please rely on your own virus check no responsibility is taken by the sender for any damage rising out of any bug or virus infection. _____________________________________________________________________ Cross Hüller North America has implemented a policy such that this message has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further information visit http://www.messagelabs.com/stats.asp ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 14:50:20 -0400 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> Intake manifold To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000601c5a293$5a688a60$20a672d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Colin Great explanation, darn helpful knowledge, thanks! Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 10:08 PM Subject: KR> Intake manifold > Recently I have taken the position to allow others to comment and just > read, seeing how others have the answers, and my time being short due to > the new job. However, this one needs a comment... > > A point to remember when changing intake manifold designs is what > makes > what kind of power. Long skinny runners with gentle curves make great > power in low to mid rpms with great throttle response, sacrificing top end > power for better mid range and beginning rpm response, which is typical of > a bone stock car. Larger runners with shorter lengths and straight shots > to the heads make great power mid to high rpm, but suffer badly on the > bottom end due to the lack of vacuum signal to the carb. Just take a look > at a modern ProStock Dragster. They are also prone to having fuel vapor > linger in the plenum chamber area directly below the carb, and then get > swept into the next cylinder causing a lean rich condition at or near idle > rpm. Sharp corners, drastic changes in port sizes from a large plenum, > big carbs and large plenums, all hurt performance of the chosen parts, and > tend to favor just one rpm band neglecting the others to produce a narrow > range of operation. How many of us are actually going to see the rpms that > the changes are for: most of us Corvair and VW alike stay in the low to > midrange rpms all the time, even on takeoff (3000-3500 rpm vs. redlines of > 5500 to 6000 rpm). > > The carb is spaced up from the turn into the head because if the turn > is > too sharp, then the air out runs the gas causing it to puddle in the > plenum area and then get sucked into the next cylinder, rich lean surge is > the result. Also oversized carbs tend to make the engine SLOW down at wide > open throttle instead of speed up due to the carbs ability to give more > air than the engine can actually use. Consult the Auto Mathbook available > at any auto parts store or Barnes & Noble, and you can calculate the CFM > requirements of your engine yourself and see what I mean about carb > selection. Be careful when you begin modifying things that 100s of hours > on the dyno with way more experienced technicians who were being paid to > spend 8 hours a day to work out the bugs on the engine, and its successive > different versions. I don't know any of us that have that much free time > to experiment, and frankly I want to fly. > > Colin Rainey > KSFB > Sanford, FL. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:30:28 -0400 From: Subject: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON To: Message-ID: <20050816203026.MZBD28616.eastrmmtao06.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Time to whip a dead horse. The latest posts on a "KR2S-port" are a good six months to a year old. My favorite was "Why build a 160mph airplane down to 130mph?". I'm thinking low drag airframe + climb prop = ultra low fuel consumption without crippled vertical performance. Besides, affordable LSA alternatives e.g. Sonex are wicked stepsister ugly (MY OPINION ONLY!!!). Is anyone still actively working on a KR2S with LSA maximum performance? I'd like to discuss your experiences, maybe offlist to avoid any flaming here. Dick Hartwig, Ron Freiberger, Rick Human, you guys or anyone else out there still working on this? See you at the Gathering! ------------------------------------ Richard Rankin richardanddonya@cox.net N328FT (reserved) EAA 688891 Tulsa, OK ------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:58:01 -0700 From: "Curt Britt Jr" Subject: Re: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000f01c5a2a5$3077d370$6701a8c0@hmsi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sir, I too have been looking into a kr2 sport. If the 130 mph is the mark, why not adjust the engine to get there, thus making it a sport. (I do know other adjustments will have to be made, but just how difficult can it be?) If there are any suggestions, I would like to know. Thanks - Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 1:30 PM Subject: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON > Time to whip a dead horse. The latest posts on a "KR2S-port" are a > good six months to a year old. > > My favorite was "Why build a 160mph airplane down to 130mph?". I'm thinking low drag airframe + climb prop = ultra low fuel consumption without crippled vertical performance. Besides, affordable LSA alternatives e.g. Sonex are wicked stepsister ugly (MY OPINION ONLY!!!). > > Is anyone still actively working on a KR2S with LSA maximum > performance? I'd like to discuss your experiences, maybe offlist to avoid any flaming here. Dick Hartwig, Ron Freiberger, Rick Human, you guys or anyone else out there still working on this? > > See you at the Gathering! > > ------------------------------------ > Richard Rankin > richardanddonya@cox.net > N328FT (reserved) > EAA 688891 > Tulsa, OK > ------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 17:54:15 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Re: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050816215415.ONGO15494.eastrmmtao03.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > From: "Curt Britt Jr" > If the 130 mph is the mark, why not adjust the engine to get there, > thus making it a sport. A lower-powered engine reduces climb performance more than cruise speed, due to lack of excess thrust. Climb prop limits your top speed without crippling your vertical performance. Not sure how far you can carry that theory, though, might have to do a little of both. For the stall speed, have to have more wing area, or different airfoil, or very low gross... There's a lot of advice on this board in the archives. I'm hoping by now someone's made it work (or close to making it work) on a 2S. ------------------------------------ Richard Rankin richardanddonya (at) cox (dot) net N328FT (reserved - as of today!) EAA 688891 Tulsa, OK ------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 18:33:10 -0400 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: Re: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050816.183311.2568.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii remember that the first KR-1 was powered by 36 Hp VW, and the KR-2 with 60 Hp, Virg On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 17:54:15 -0400 writes: > > > > From: "Curt Britt Jr" > > If the 130 mph is the mark, why not adjust the engine to get > there, thus making it a sport. > > A lower-powered engine reduces climb performance more than cruise > speed, due to lack of excess thrust. Climb prop limits your top > speed without crippling your vertical performance. Not sure how far > you can carry that theory, though, might have to do a little of > both. > > For the stall speed, have to have more wing area, or different > airfoil, or very low gross... > > There's a lot of advice on this board in the archives. I'm hoping by > now someone's made it work (or close to making it work) on a 2S. > > ------------------------------------ > Richard Rankin > richardanddonya (at) cox (dot) net > N328FT (reserved - as of today!) > EAA 688891 > Tulsa, OK > ------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 17:54:15 -0500 From: "Steve Bray" Subject: Re: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Curt Don't take offense to this suggestion, Get your PPL and forget the LS crap. There is stuff in there you need to know. Steve B >From: "Curt Britt Jr" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: "KRnet" >Subject: Re: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON >Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:58:01 -0700 > >Sir, I too have been looking into a kr2 sport. If the 130 mph is the >mark, why not adjust the engine to get there, thus making it a sport. >(I do know other adjustments will have to be made, but just how >difficult can it be?) If there are any suggestions, I would like to >know. Thanks - Curt >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 1:30 PM >Subject: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON > > > > Time to whip a dead horse. The latest posts on a "KR2S-port" are a > > good >six months to a year old. > > > > My favorite was "Why build a 160mph airplane down to 130mph?". I'm >thinking low drag airframe + climb prop = ultra low fuel consumption >without >crippled vertical performance. Besides, affordable LSA alternatives e.g. >Sonex are wicked stepsister ugly (MY OPINION ONLY!!!). > > > > Is anyone still actively working on a KR2S with LSA maximum > > performance? >I'd like to discuss your experiences, maybe offlist to avoid any >flaming here. Dick Hartwig, Ron Freiberger, Rick Human, you guys or >anyone else out there still working on this? > > > > See you at the Gathering! > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Richard Rankin > > richardanddonya@cox.net > > N328FT (reserved) > > EAA 688891 > > Tulsa, OK > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 18:20:49 -0500 From: "Richard and Donya Rankin" Subject: RE: Re: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <20050816232044.QJSP27462.centrmmtao04.cox.net@VANGUARD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >remember that the first KR-1 was powered by 36 Hp VW, and the KR-2 >with 60 Hp, Virg Indeed, right you are. And they were reasonably fast, too. The addition (or reduction) of horsepower will change the cruise speed some, but will have a huge impact on the rate of climb. If I'm gonna downrate the top end speed I think I'd rather do it with prop pitch to keep the high climb rates. Just my theory but I'm hoping someone's tried it. I have my PPSEL and medical. Dear old dad elected not to renew his medical... so I'm calling him my "speed bump." :) ------------------------------------ Richard Rankin richardanddonya (at) cox (dot) net N328FT (reserved - as of today!) EAA 688891 Tulsa, OK ------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 18:59:30 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: Re: KR> KR2Sport - FLAME ON To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <025301c5a2be$8efb5890$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Before I started trying to neuter a KR2 to fit into LSA, I think I'd just build something like a Zenith 601 with a Corvair in it, which fits right into LSA, hauls two big people and real luggage, is far quicker to build, probably costs less when plans-built, and maybe even costs less when built as a kit. And nobody would question whether or not it's eligible for LSA... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:40:57 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> LSA alternative To: Message-ID: <00ce01c5a2c4$55aa6fd0$3a412141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To elaborate on Mark's comment, if working with wood and fiberglass is your thing, consider the Vision, which by all my observations is the next generation KR2S, and install a Corvair engine, and get a sweet flying airplane, plans built like the KR, glass like the KR but with a long wing version that also should fit nicely into LSA category. Subaru and GM 4.3V6 engines have been used in it as well so it is very adaptable to the task. No one has ever said the KR cannot fit the LSA, just that there are SO many examples that do not fit, you will have a hard row to hoe to prove to a DAR that it is LSA qualified. The FAA commentary that I read specifically mentioned that they are watching for aircraft that have previously been certified in other categories to be modified into LSA, and will aggressively prevent this. The purpose of the category is not to give alternatives, but to regulate those aircraft that already fit the category and previously were not regulated. Having said that, changes made logically to ANY airframe which significantly change the flight characteristics in such a way as to comply with the LSA restrictions should be able to be proved to comply much the same way as someone who proves their modifications to an original design are safe. To the FAA, documentation is and always will be the most important thing: if you show can show where others did the same thing and got a particular result, then it will be a much easier sell. BUT, bare in mind that any such changes DRASTICALLY effects the build time because now you are designing, building, troubleshooting, remaking, designing, troubleshooting, etc.... as you go. Good luck. Colin Rainey N96TA KSFB ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 309 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================