From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 331 Date: 8/29/2005 9:19:55 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. plywood (patrick36@usfamily.net) 2. Re: Thanks ( Phillip Matheson) 3. RE: KR Gathering Plane List (Bob Lee) 4. Re: Anti KR Medicine ( Phillip Matheson) 5. Re: Gathering wood (Dan Heath) 6. RE: Anti KR Medicine (Bob Lee) 7. Re: Anti KR Medicine ( Phillip Matheson) 8. Phil Matheson (Dan Heath) 9. Re: plywood (BEARLKBOB@aol.com) 10. Re: Email address ( Phillip Matheson) 11. Phil - mailbox still full (Dan Heath) 12. Re: KR Gathering Plane List (Mark Langford) 13. Re: KR Gathering Plane List (Orma) 14. RE: Phil - mailbox still full (Ron Freiberger) 15. Revised KR Gathgering Plane List (20) (Mark Jones) 16. Re: Gathering fire (pole shed) 17. Re: RE: KR> Phil - mailbox still full (danrh@alltel.net) 18. Re: Storm (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 19. Re: Revised KR Gathgering Plane List (20) (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 20. Re: Question for the experienced ones... :-) (JAMES FERRIS) 21. Re: Question for the experienced ones... :-) (Jeff Scott) 22. RE: Question for the experienced ones... :-) (Mark Jones) 23. Re: Question for the experienced ones... :-) (iennaco@att.net) 24. Re: Revised KR Gathgering Plane List (20) (Ron Lee) 25. Re: Gathering fire (Bob Glidden) 26. Re: Question for the experienced ones... :-) (larry flesner) 27. Re: Question for the experienced ones... :-) (JAMES FERRIS) 28. RE: Question for the experienced ones... :-) (Mark Jones) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 00:24:46 -0500 From: Subject: KR> plywood To: "KR Net" Message-ID: <000801c5ac59$f897ec60$0500a8c0@domain.actdsltmp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I checked the archives and only found two posts about Baltic Birch. Both of them favorable. Does anyone use this on their skins? This stuff is only $12.50 for a 50" x 50" X 1/8" Patrick Driscoll Saint Paul, MN patrick36@usfamily.net --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 19:40:42 +1000 From: " Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Thanks To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005e01c5ac7d$ba077eb0$0fa7443d@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Good luck Ray We are thinking of you , from down under Phil Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ http://corvair.vw-engines.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 05:45:56 -0400 From: "Bob Lee" Subject: RE: KR> KR Gathering Plane List To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <022c01c5ac7e$7500f160$210c0b0a@bubba9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mark Jones wrote regarding KR pilots that will fly to the gathering: >> I know there are others... please add your name and forward back to the KR Net. << According to the KRGathering pre-registration forms there are 22 pilots that have indicated that they will fly their KRs to this year's KRGathering: Brian Douglas Killeen, Texas Brian Kraut Jacksonville, FL Colin Rainey Sanford, Florida Collin Cleland Calgary, Alberta, Canada James Raleigh Mexico, Mo. Jeff York Lexington, KY Jim Faughn St. Louis, MO Joe Weber Cuba City, Wis. Ken Jones Sharonville, OH kenneth thomas jasper al Larry Flesner Carterville, Illinois Mark Jones Wales, Wisconsin Mark Langford Harvest, Alabama Orma Robbins Southfield MI Paul Nunn Pueblo, Colorado Lee Van Dyke Mesa AZ STEVE BENNETT OMAHA, NE Steve Glover Trabuco Canyon, California steven w jones venice,fl Terry Teer Ackerman, MS Tommy Waymack Pine Bluff,Arkansas William Clapp Valdosta GA Regards, Bob Lee ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 19:46:47 +1000 From: " Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Anti KR Medicine To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <007e01c5ac7e$9a13e8e0$0fa7443d@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Mark The only problem I see is that her medicine my stop after the gathering, then what will you do? Move into your hanger? Phil Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ http://corvair.vw-engines.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 06:00:28 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Gathering wood To: Message-ID: <4312DCBC.00000B.02464@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I will assume that from what Larry said, we don't need to bring wood. I can throw some in the back of the truck, if I am coming in the truck. And, the depends on whether or not Delores decides to go. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- From: Bob Glidden Date: 08/28/05 21:44:47 To: KRnet Subject: KR> Gathering wood O.K. guys I know these are not airplane related,but they are KR related.We need anybody that is driving into the gathering and has room to throw some logs into your car,trucks,vans whatever you are driving.Even if you only have room for one log it will help..... Bob Glidden Eminence,Indiana KR2S N181FW (building) Corvair 110 glidden@ccrtc.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 06:19:12 -0400 From: "Bob Lee" Subject: RE: KR> Anti KR Medicine To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <023101c5ac83$1ae42620$210c0b0a@bubba9> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Phil, I don't know what kind of medicine the Shelia's hand out down under, but up here in the northern hemisphere when the wife turns off the "medicine" a trip to the hanger will not cut it. The only thing that helps in that situation is a cold shower! Bob Lee KR2 91% complete only 55% to go -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Phillip Matheson Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 5:47 AM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Anti KR Medicine Mark The only problem I see is that her medicine my stop after the gathering, then what will you do? Move into your hanger? Phil Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ http://corvair.vw-engines.com/ _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:21:33 +1000 From: " Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Anti KR Medicine To: , "KRnet" Message-ID: <010501c5ac83$71d38cf0$0fa7443d@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Very true Bob But may be Mark may be asked nicly to move to the hanger ( %$#&) if he doesn't get his mind off the KR and gathering. Phil Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ http://corvair.vw-engines.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 06:43:12 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Phil Matheson To: Message-ID: <4312E6C0.000003.01484@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Phil, Trying to send you a message. Your mail box is full. Getting messages returned. ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:07:49 EDT From: BEARLKBOB@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> plywood To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Patrick; Youngblood lumber on Central ave Mpls. stocks some very fine Russian Baltic Birch ply at a cost similar to your quote. Bob Polgreen ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:13:01 +1000 From: " Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Email address To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <01b901c5ac8a$9f93b910$0fa7443d@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Dan Did you get my email to your private address? Phil Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ http://corvair.vw-engines.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:28:27 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Phil - mailbox still full To: Message-ID: <4312F15B.00000C.01484@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dan ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 06:44:43 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> KR Gathering Plane List To: , "KRnet" Message-ID: <005201c5ac8f$0c8c9dd0$7f73a58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Add Troy Petteway to the list, and maybe Jeff Duval, but Troy for sure! Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 08:01:23 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> KR Gathering Plane List To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00b801c5ac91$61c47eb0$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original According to that list, it should be a record. Orma L. Robbins Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 08:24:19 -0400 From: "Ron Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> Phil - mailbox still full To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000801c5ac94$97db8310$6400a8c0@Disorganized> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well,then, I guess eveyone will get the message but Phil! Ron Freiberger mail to ronandmartha@earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Dan Heath Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 7:28 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Phil - mailbox still full Dan ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:30:00 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> Revised KR Gathgering Plane List (20) To: "KR Net \(E-mail\)" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C441D@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Unfortunately a couple have removed themselves from the list. Here is what I have now. Please make updates accordingly: Brian Douglas... Killeen, Texas Colin Rainey... Sanford, Florida Collin Cleland... Calgary, Alberta, Canada James Raleigh... Mexico, Mo. Jeff York... Lexington, KY Jim Faughn... St. Louis, MO Joe Weber... Cuba City, WI. Ken Jones... Sharonville, OH Kenneth Thomas... Jasper, AL Larry Flesner... Carterville, Illinois Mark Jones... Wales, Wisconsin Mark Langford... Harvest, Alabama Orma Robbins... Southfield MI Paul Nunn... Pueblo, Colorado Steve Bennett... Omaha, NE Steve Jones... Venice, FL Terry Teer... Ackerman, MS Tommy Waymack... Pine Bluff,Arkansas Troy Petteway...Tennessee William Clapp... Valdosta GA and.... ONLY 10 DAYS TO GO....Man if you are not there, you will be so bummed out when you start hearing about all the fun we had...so BE THERE !!! Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 05:34:20 -0700 (PDT) From: pole shed Subject: Re: KR> Gathering fire To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050829123420.19459.qmail@web31107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Larry--- I have some apples trees that need to come down anyway, if you want me to bring some. I have to pick apples Friday, so I doubt that I come during the day, but I can bring it Friday evening, or make arrangements to get it to you earlier. Larry Lipe Carbondale,IL > Thanks to the airport manager, there will be wood > for the fire > at the site when you arrive. > > Just don't tear down the pavilon or burn the picnic > tables > if you run short of wood! :-) > > Larry Flesner - Gathering Host __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 7:51:38 -0500 From: Subject: Re: RE: KR> Phil - mailbox still full To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050829125138.ODGK12191.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Well then, he seems to be getting messages from the net. Maybe there is a different problem. I am trying to alert him to the fact that there is a problem. Sorry if I have inconvenienced you. From: "Ron Freiberger" Date: 2005/08/29 Mon AM 07:24:19 CDT To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR> Phil - mailbox still full Well,then, I guess eveyone will get the message but Phil! Ron Freiberger mail to ronandmartha@earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Dan Heath Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 7:28 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Phil - mailbox still full Dan _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 08:55:41 -0400 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> Storm To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050829.085541.2572.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 5' below sea level and a 24' surge! You will have to swim UP to get into the boat, Virg Good Luck! Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 09:28:51 -0400 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> Revised KR Gathgering Plane List (20) To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050829.092851.2572.2.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Wait till the sun shines Nellie ! After the storm passes, Virg On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:30:00 -0500 "Mark Jones" writes: > Unfortunately a couple have removed themselves from the list. Here is > what I have now. Please make updates accordingly: > > Brian Douglas... Killeen, Texas > > Colin Rainey... Sanford, Florida > > Collin Cleland... Calgary, Alberta, Canada > > James Raleigh... Mexico, Mo. > > Jeff York... Lexington, KY > > Jim Faughn... St. Louis, MO > > Joe Weber... Cuba City, WI. > > Ken Jones... Sharonville, OH > > Kenneth Thomas... Jasper, AL > > Larry Flesner... Carterville, Illinois > > Mark Jones... Wales, Wisconsin > > Mark Langford... Harvest, Alabama > > Orma Robbins... Southfield MI > > Paul Nunn... Pueblo, Colorado > > Steve Bennett... Omaha, NE > > Steve Jones... Venice, FL > > Terry Teer... Ackerman, MS > > Tommy Waymack... Pine Bluff,Arkansas > > Troy Petteway...Tennessee > > William Clapp... Valdosta GA > > and.... ONLY 10 DAYS TO GO....Man if you are not there, you will be > so bummed out when you start hearing about all the fun we had...so > BE THERE !!! > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj > Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:41:03 -0400 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> Question for the experienced ones... :-) To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050830.094104.828.0.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sure! a big man can fly. The thing you need to look at is the wing loading. I don't think the Rand company is correct for the wing loading so lets use Larry's airplane even though he says theres no way. gross wt.=1100 lb, S, wing area= 77sq.ft. ( he has clipped wings so its less the the 80 sq.ft. of Rand ) Now, the wing loading of Larry's plane is W/S = 1100/77 = 14.28 lb/sq.ft. now, you weigh 60 lb more than Larry and you want to carry a small passanger like 100lb. so your gross weight will be 1100+60+100 = 1260lb so you want to keep the same wing loading, so wing area should be S=1260/14.03 = 88 sq. ft. Now since the center section of the wing chord is 4ft.,you can get this increase in wing area (11sq. ft.) by increasing the center section by 11/4 =2.8ft. by adding 1.4 ft. to each side of the center section of the wing. This will also increase the Aspect Ratio of the wing which will increase the climb rate. This will change the structure slightly but the spar caps of the center section can be increased to beef up the structure to componinsate for the extra bending moment. Happy flying Jim PS I'm an aeronauyical engineer. ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:01:59 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: Re: KR> Question for the experienced ones... :-) To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050829.070215.9684.185213@webmail25.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain Larry, I think I'll take exception to your description. Last year's Gathering when I took Rick Corkendahl (I probably slaughtered the spelling of his name) with me in my KR, we had a front seat weight of roughly 410#. I think Rick would probably attest to it flying significantly sharper than a Cesstruck, in climb and all other aspects of flight. I believe we saw 205 IAS in a shallow dive to take a look at the video camera. ;o) We were well withing the CG limits, and right at the gross of 1200#. Although with the plans sized cabin it was quite crowded. Jeff Scott N1213W -- larry flesner wrote: Facts: I am 6'1, 260lbs. Spending my >whole flying life in Cessnas I have always kept my >front seat weight below 400lbs, mainly because my lady >friends were always tiny. >Scott +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ My opinion is that if you weigh 260 pounds, there is no way to build a KR that will allow you to add a passanger of any size and keep the CG in the envelope. My KR2 has a 24" stretch with an 0-200 and came in at 765 empty. I weigh 200 pounds and have carried passangers up to approx 170 pounds. At those weights it performs similar to a C-150 in hot weather. It still handles good in the air but it is not the "rocket" I enjoy when flying solo. The weight doesn't hurt to much on the speed but the takeoff and climb is rather poor, 500fpm on a 90 degree day. My solo takeoff weight is generally in the 1050 to 1100 pound range. I'm using the stock KR2 wing with shorter tips so my wing is 8 inches shorter then stock. Every mod makes a difference. ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 09:21:45 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: KR> Question for the experienced ones... :-) To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C4422@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And if you seen me and Marty in his KR-2 packed in like a couple of sardines, you would think his performance would have been compromised but it was not. On his high speed pass down the runway, the ASI was reading 219 mph. And in the dive to the airport, the G forces were pulling my face down and I was praying the wings would stay on since this was my first flight in a KR. I looked over at Marty and he was smiling the whole time not concerned a bit. I would be willing to bet we had 420 lbs in that seat. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+flykr2s=wi.rr.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+flykr2s=wi.rr.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Jeff Scott Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:02 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR> Question for the experienced ones... :-) Larry, I think I'll take exception to your description. Last year's Gathering when I took Rick Corkendahl (I probably slaughtered the spelling of his name) with me in my KR, we had a front seat weight of roughly 410#. I think Rick would probably attest to it flying significantly sharper than a Cesstruck, in climb and all other aspects of flight. I believe we saw 205 IAS in a shallow dive to take a look at the video camera. ;o) We were well withing the CG limits, and right at the gross of 1200#. Although with the plans sized cabin it was quite crowded. Jeff Scott N1213W -- larry flesner wrote: Facts: I am 6'1, 260lbs. Spending my >whole flying life in Cessnas I have always kept my >front seat weight below 400lbs, mainly because my lady >friends were always tiny. >Scott +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ My opinion is that if you weigh 260 pounds, there is no way to build a KR that will allow you to add a passanger of any size and keep the CG in the envelope. My KR2 has a 24" stretch with an 0-200 and came in at 765 empty. I weigh 200 pounds and have carried passangers up to approx 170 pounds. At those weights it performs similar to a C-150 in hot weather. It still handles good in the air but it is not the "rocket" I enjoy when flying solo. The weight doesn't hurt to much on the speed but the takeoff and climb is rather poor, 500fpm on a 90 degree day. My solo takeoff weight is generally in the 1050 to 1100 pound range. I'm using the stock KR2 wing with shorter tips so my wing is 8 inches shorter then stock. Every mod makes a difference. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:14:04 +0000 From: iennaco@att.net Subject: Re: KR> Question for the experienced ones... :-) To: KRnet Message-ID: <082920051514.8732.4313263B000EC9A80000221C2160281302010C0E02020A07@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain James, What's an ">>aeronauyical engineer"? (Sorry, couldn't resist the typo.) ;<) Dick Iennaco -------------- Original message from JAMES FERRIS : -------------- > Sure! a big man can fly. The thing you need to look at is the wing > loading. I don't think the Rand company is correct for the wing loading > so lets use Larry's airplane even though he says theres no way. gross > wt.=1100 lb, S, wing area= 77sq.ft. ( he has clipped wings so its less > the the 80 sq.ft. of Rand ) Now, the wing loading of Larry's plane is > W/S = 1100/77 = 14.28 lb/sq.ft. now, you weigh 60 lb more than Larry and > you want to carry a small passanger like 100lb. so your gross weight will > be 1100+60+100 = 1260lb so you want to keep the same wing loading, so > wing area should be S=1260/14.03 = 88 sq. ft. Now since the center > section of the wing chord is 4ft.,you can get this increase in wing area > (11sq. ft.) by increasing the center section by 11/4 =2.8ft. by adding > 1.4 ft. to each side of the center section of the wing. This will also > increase the Aspect Ratio of the wing which will increase the climb > rate. This will change the structure slightly but the spar caps of the > center section can be increased to beef up the structure to componinsate > for the extra bending moment. > Happy flying > Jim > PS I'm an aeronauyical engineer. > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 09:24:15 -0600 From: Ron Lee Subject: Re: KR> Revised KR Gathgering Plane List (20) To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20050829092343.01c60f40@mail.pcisys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed And a token RV-6A from Falcon, CO No longer purple! Ron Lee ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:01:55 -0500 From: "Bob Glidden" Subject: Re: KR> Gathering fire To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <01a501c5acb2$fac8ffc0$6401a8c0@ADMINISTRATOR> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Thanks Larry.I met your airport manager at Oshkosh,if I remember correctly his name was Chris.Very nice guy and was really excited about the KR gathering being held there.He has a lot of good ideas for the airport and seems very motivated... Bob Glidden Eminence,Indiana KR2S N181FW (building) Corvair 110 glidden@ccrtc.com ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:07:50 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Question for the experienced ones... :-) To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050829110750.008093c0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I can't dispute Jeff's and Mark's replys (see below) but some additional info ought to be given for builders to consider. I'll let these gentleman correct me where I'm in error. Jeff's KR is stretched, I'm not sure how much, and his empty CG is at or near the very forward limit to start. He is flying a recently rebuilt 0-200 with C-85 pistons and probably is getting a reliable 110 hp. As I recall, he is flying on the longer wings such as the Diehl skins. Other than, as he mentioned, the standard size cockpit being a bit crowded, his KR probably performs well with 410#'s in the cockpit. My KR is running a tired 0-200 (2000 hour) on slightly less then stock wings. I once rode in Marty's KR and it was CROWDED. I couldn't get my legs under his panel (I'm 6'4", 200lbs) and my head was touching his canopy. Marty was running an 0-200 at an rpm that was probably giving him 120hp at full throttle. I think he was turning 2800+ rpm and maybe pushing 3000. If you throw another 50 to 60 pounds passenger weight in either of the above mentioned KR, I suspect you will be pushing the edge of the envelope, either performance or CG wise, especially in Marty's KR on the CG. Also consider where your fuel weight is and which way the CG will move with fuel burn. You might recall Steve Glovers recent post regarding aft CG and controlability. We might throw in another KR that is pushing the envelope. Is it Keith Kottle running the Jabaru? As I recall, he stands about 6foot, 6 inches tall and has modified his KR to his size and weight. With all due respect, I'm still convinced you can't start with a 260 pound pilot, expect to add a passanger of any significant size and have a KR that performs the way we expect a KR to perform. That's not to say it won't fly and can't be set up to fly safely but you'll need plenty of HP and the some major considerations made in building to set it up correctly. My only caution is to keep a good grip on reality when planning/ building your KR. If it's a bit heavy, say 750 pounds, the pilot weighs 260 pounds, expects to invite a 200 pound friend along and add 25 gallons of fuel, don't expect a 1360 pound KR to go rocketing off into the sunset. Larry Flesner ++++++============+++++++++++=========++++++++========== Last year's Gathering when I took Rick Corkendahl (I probably slaughtered the spelling of his name) with me in my KR, we had a front seat weight of roughly 410#. I think Rick would probably attest to it flying significantly sharper than a Cesstruck, in climb and all other aspects of flight. >Jeff Scott ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ And if you seen me and Marty in his KR-2 packed in like a couple of sardines, you would think his performance would have been compromised but it was not. On his high speed pass down the runway, the ASI was reading 219 mph. I would be willing to bet we had 420 lbs in that seat. Mark Jones (N886MJ) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:15:06 -0400 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> Question for the experienced ones... :-) To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050830.121506.800.0.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Its always nice to have at least one smart ass around to keep us in line. Thanks Jim ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:24:02 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: KR> Question for the experienced ones... :-) To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F357C4424@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Larry, you are correct and I back your observations where I am included in your post. You are correct that a 1350 KR will not rocket into the air but if the CG is ok, it will fly. Just expect longer take off roll and slow climb. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of larry flesner Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 11:08 AM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Question for the experienced ones... :-) I can't dispute Jeff's and Mark's replys (see below) but some additional info ought to be given for builders to consider. I'll let these gentleman correct me where I'm in error. Jeff's KR is stretched, I'm not sure how much, and his empty CG is at or near the very forward limit to start. He is flying a recently rebuilt 0-200 with C-85 pistons and probably is getting a reliable 110 hp. As I recall, he is flying on the longer wings such as the Diehl skins. Other than, as he mentioned, the standard size cockpit being a bit crowded, his KR probably performs well with 410#'s in the cockpit. My KR is running a tired 0-200 (2000 hour) on slightly less then stock wings. I once rode in Marty's KR and it was CROWDED. I couldn't get my legs under his panel (I'm 6'4", 200lbs) and my head was touching his canopy. Marty was running an 0-200 at an rpm that was probably giving him 120hp at full throttle. I think he was turning 2800+ rpm and maybe pushing 3000. If you throw another 50 to 60 pounds passenger weight in either of the above mentioned KR, I suspect you will be pushing the edge of the envelope, either performance or CG wise, especially in Marty's KR on the CG. Also consider where your fuel weight is and which way the CG will move with fuel burn. You might recall Steve Glovers recent post regarding aft CG and controlability. We might throw in another KR that is pushing the envelope. Is it Keith Kottle running the Jabaru? As I recall, he stands about 6foot, 6 inches tall and has modified his KR to his size and weight. With all due respect, I'm still convinced you can't start with a 260 pound pilot, expect to add a passanger of any significant size and have a KR that performs the way we expect a KR to perform. That's not to say it won't fly and can't be set up to fly safely but you'll need plenty of HP and the some major considerations made in building to set it up correctly. My only caution is to keep a good grip on reality when planning/ building your KR. If it's a bit heavy, say 750 pounds, the pilot weighs 260 pounds, expects to invite a 200 pound friend along and add 25 gallons of fuel, don't expect a 1360 pound KR to go rocketing off into the sunset. Larry Flesner ++++++============+++++++++++=========++++++++========== Last year's Gathering when I took Rick Corkendahl (I probably slaughtered the spelling of his name) with me in my KR, we had a front seat weight of roughly 410#. I think Rick would probably attest to it flying significantly sharper than a Cesstruck, in climb and all other aspects of flight. >Jeff Scott ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ And if you seen me and Marty in his KR-2 packed in like a couple of sardines, you would think his performance would have been compromised but it was not. On his high speed pass down the runway, the ASI was reading 219 mph. I would be willing to bet we had 420 lbs in that seat. Mark Jones (N886MJ) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 331 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================