From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 353 Date: 9/9/2005 9:00:19 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Hi from a new comer / prospective builder in Europe (JAMES FERRIS) 2. JUST TESTING (PATTY GARMAN) 3. Re: Tweety is sick (Joseph H Horton) 4. Re: Tweety is sick (Scott William) 5. Re: Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Hi from a new comer / prospective builder in Europe (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 6. Re: Tweety is sick (Buck Wells) 7. Re: KR Gathering Photos (glenda mcelwee) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:39:59 -0400 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Hi from a new comer / prospective builder in Europe To: flyingb@gmail.com,krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050910.114000.1952.2.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Your right it's the price, but is that a stabilator on that airplane? looks great but I wouldn' spin it. Jim ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:50:55 -0700 (PDT) From: PATTY GARMAN Subject: KR> JUST TESTING To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050909165056.13262.qmail@web35901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:48:38 -0400 From: Joseph H Horton Subject: Re: KR> Tweety is sick To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050909.144839.-523309.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Scott, In your opinion would I have my engine at risk of the same thing happening? I just tore down last week and replaced the crank shaft in a corvair. I did not replace the copper head gaskets or the steel base gasket. It is not turbo but is the 3100 cc. I have run it for 10 min. but only up to 1800rpm. Thanks Joe Horton, Coopersburg, Pa. joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 05:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Scott William writes: > If I may offer this: The reason I asked about your > head gasket is because you did as I suspected. Just my > $.02 here on your work....but when you loosened the > nuts, you should have removed the head, re-annealed > the copper gasket, and reinstalled and torqued. Once > the torque is removed from copper, it will not > properly reseal (combustion pressures)unless it is > replaced with a new one, or annealed to soften it back > up. In a turbo motor such as yours, this is imperative because of the > increased combustion temps. > > Again, just my $.02 from years of building air cooled stuff... > > If you want to know of a good annealing process, I'd > be gld to offer. > > Scott > > --- Orma wrote: > > > Yes, burned under the copper gasket and eventually > > through the copper > > gasket. I'm going to talk to my VW guy today and > > have him look at the > > head.. The color of the deposits in the head, look > > to be on the lean side. > > The gas escaped at the top. Which is where I had > > removed the nuts to > > install the cht senders. There was torque on the > > nut, when I went to remove > > them, it's just that the gas escape pattern suggests > > that there was > > looseness at the top. With the turbo putting more > > pressure on the engine, > > the problem may be other. When I get back to the > > plane today, I'm going to > > play with the other head and see what the torque is > > like on that side. > > > > Orma > > Southfield, MI > > KR-2 N110LR 1984 > > See Tweety at http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com > > See other KR spces at www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/krinfo.htm > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at > > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. > http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott William Subject: Re: KR> Tweety is sick To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050909190802.31922.qmail@web31511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 In my opinion, anytime you lessen a torque value on any metal gasket that holds back large quantities of pressure, you must reseal the surface with material that has correct sealing properties. The nice thing about air coolded engines is that you are only trying to keep pressure in and you don't have any fluid to worry about, so there is no need to use sealers. That being said, if you un-torque your head bolts, you must, in my opinion, replace the head gasket. If you are using copper, you can return the material to it's original soft composition by annealing it. This can easily be done, but ***is different than steal***. With steal, you heat then quench to harden it. With copper, just the opposite is true. You heat the copper with a torch to at least 800deg F, then water quench it. It will soften to it's original state. You can then reinstall it. A concern of this method is oxidation, but it is a long term concern. Rule of thumb: Heat until cherry red, throw in a tub of water, remove, dry, and let cool all the way. Then use... As for the steal base gasket, remember, on the corvair, that base gasket doesn't hold back combustion pressure, only minimal crankcase pressure and oil. If you didn't disturb the position of the cylinder, you probably don't have to replace the base gasket. If you did disturb the cylinder, don't anneal the gasket, just put some sealer on it and you should be fine. Replace or anneal the headgasket if you untorqued the bolts. Not only will you save your head from the damage caused by leaking combustion gasses, but you'll also save your life. Again, just my $.02. Better yet....I think I'll buy a horse. :-) Scott --- Joseph H Horton wrote: > Scott, > In your opinion would I have my engine at risk of > the same thing > happening? I just tore down last week and replaced > the crank shaft in a > corvair. I did not replace the copper head gaskets > or the steel base > gasket. It is not turbo but is the 3100 cc. I have > run it for 10 min. but > only up to 1800rpm. > Thanks > Joe Horton, Coopersburg, Pa. > joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com > > On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 05:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Scott > William > writes: > > If I may offer this: The reason I asked about > your > > head gasket is because you did as I suspected. > Just my > > $.02 here on your work....but when you loosened > the > > nuts, you should have removed the head, > re-annealed > > the copper gasket, and reinstalled and torqued. > Once > > the torque is removed from copper, it will not > > properly reseal (combustion pressures)unless it is > > replaced with a new one, or annealed to soften it > back > > up. In a turbo motor such as yours, this is > imperative > > because of the increased combustion temps. > > > > Again, just my $.02 from years of building air > cooled > > stuff... > > > > If you want to know of a good annealing process, > I'd > > be gld to offer. > > > > Scott > > > > --- Orma wrote: > > > > > Yes, burned under the copper gasket and > eventually > > > through the copper > > > gasket. I'm going to talk to my VW guy today > and > > > have him look at the > > > head.. The color of the deposits in the head, > look > > > to be on the lean side. > > > The gas escaped at the top. Which is where I > had > > > removed the nuts to > > > install the cht senders. There was torque on > the > > > nut, when I went to remove > > > them, it's just that the gas escape pattern > suggests > > > that there was > > > looseness at the top. With the turbo putting > more > > > pressure on the engine, > > > the problem may be other. When I get back to > the > > > plane today, I'm going to > > > play with the other head and see what the torque > is > > > like on that side. > > > > > > Orma > > > Southfield, MI > > > KR-2 N110LR 1984 > > > See Tweety at > http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com > > > See other KR spces at > > > www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/krinfo.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > > > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > > please see other KRnet info at > > > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina > relief effort. > > http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:18:06 -0400 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Hi from a new comer / prospective builder in Europe To: flyingb@gmail.com,krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050909.161927.3408.6.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes, when you have to get the Engine mount, Virg On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:01:53 +0200 "Cris." writes: > You are right, Germany is still in Europe (!). I don't know why, but > engine > rebuilding is not that popular here. In my airfield we're 95% Rotax. > I must > admit that those engines are great (do not flame me, please). I've > had one > for 4 years now, it goes great, fuel consumption is 14 lt/hour and > with the > right maintenance it is VERY reliable. And of course you do not have > to > convert it to aviation use :-) > I can think about it for the next years, anyway :-) > > One question: is in your opinion viable to start building without > actually > knowing what engine you will mount? I mean, is there a precise > moment in > building where you absolutely must know what your engine will be? > > Cris. > > 2005/9/10, JAMES FERRIS : > > > > Why can't you get a VW engine in Europe? isn't Germany still in > Europe? > > Looks like that would be the first choice. > > Jim > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > -- > Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:19:42 -0600 From: "Buck Wells" Subject: Re: KR> Tweety is sick To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed i haft to pitch in my .02 cents here and end my silent watching of the net, scott is definitly right, ( i am a certified bike mechanic and have rode triumph cycles for years) you should anneal the head gasket anytime you break the tourque on a copper head gasket ( definitly on a high compression or tuboed engine) ok back my little silent corner..... >From: Scott William >Reply-To: KRnet >To: KRnet >Subject: Re: KR> Tweety is sick >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT) > >In my opinion, anytime you lessen a torque value on >any metal gasket that holds back large quantities of >pressure, you must reseal the surface with material >that has correct sealing properties. The nice thing >about air coolded engines is that you are only trying >to keep pressure in and you don't have any fluid to >worry about, so there is no need to use sealers. That >being said, if you un-torque your head bolts, you >must, in my opinion, replace the head gasket. If you >are using copper, you can return the material to it's >original soft composition by annealing it. This can >easily be done, but ***is different than steal***. >With steal, you heat then quench to harden it. With >copper, just the opposite is true. You heat the copper >with a torch to at least 800deg F, then water quench >it. It will soften to it's original state. You can >then reinstall it. A concern of this method is >oxidation, but it is a long term concern. Rule of >thumb: Heat until cherry red, throw in a tub of >water, remove, dry, and let cool all the way. Then >use... > >As for the steal base gasket, remember, on the >corvair, that base gasket doesn't hold back combustion >pressure, only minimal crankcase pressure and oil. If >you didn't disturb the position of the cylinder, you >probably don't have to replace the base gasket. If you >did disturb the cylinder, don't anneal the gasket, >just put some sealer on it and you should be fine. > >Replace or anneal the headgasket if you untorqued the >bolts. Not only will you save your head from the >damage caused by leaking combustion gasses, but you'll >also save your life. > >Again, just my $.02. > >Better yet....I think I'll buy a horse. :-) > > >Scott > >--- Joseph H Horton wrote: > > > Scott, > > In your opinion would I have my engine at risk of > > the same thing > > happening? I just tore down last week and replaced > > the crank shaft in a > > corvair. I did not replace the copper head gaskets > > or the steel base > > gasket. It is not turbo but is the 3100 cc. I have > > run it for 10 min. but > > only up to 1800rpm. > > Thanks > > Joe Horton, Coopersburg, Pa. > > joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com > > > > On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 05:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Scott > > William > > writes: > > > If I may offer this: The reason I asked about > > your > > > head gasket is because you did as I suspected. > > Just my > > > $.02 here on your work....but when you loosened > > the > > > nuts, you should have removed the head, > > re-annealed > > > the copper gasket, and reinstalled and torqued. > > Once > > > the torque is removed from copper, it will not > > > properly reseal (combustion pressures)unless it is > > > replaced with a new one, or annealed to soften it > > back > > > up. In a turbo motor such as yours, this is > > imperative > > > because of the increased combustion temps. > > > > > > Again, just my $.02 from years of building air > > cooled > > > stuff... > > > > > > If you want to know of a good annealing process, > > I'd > > > be gld to offer. > > > > > > Scott > > > > > > --- Orma wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, burned under the copper gasket and > > eventually > > > > through the copper > > > > gasket. I'm going to talk to my VW guy today > > and > > > > have him look at the > > > > head.. The color of the deposits in the head, > > look > > > > to be on the lean side. > > > > The gas escaped at the top. Which is where I > > had > > > > removed the nuts to > > > > install the cht senders. There was torque on > > the > > > > nut, when I went to remove > > > > them, it's just that the gas escape pattern > > suggests > > > > that there was > > > > looseness at the top. With the turbo putting > > more > > > > pressure on the engine, > > > > the problem may be other. When I get back to > > the > > > > plane today, I'm going to > > > > play with the other head and see what the torque > > is > > > > like on that side. > > > > > > > > Orma > > > > Southfield, MI > > > > KR-2 N110LR 1984 > > > > See Tweety at > > http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com > > > > See other KR spces at > > > > www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/krinfo.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > > > > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > > > please see other KRnet info at > > > > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >______________________________________________________ > > > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina > > relief effort. > > > http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > > please see other KRnet info at > > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at > > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:21:03 -0700 (PDT) From: glenda mcelwee Subject: Re: KR> KR Gathering Photos To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050910032104.99970.qmail@web31411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Friday photos of the KR Gathering are on my website www.awesometrvl.com Glenda McElwee --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 353 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================