From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 378 Date: 9/24/2005 9:00:44 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. VW Valve covers (Lee Van Dyke) 2. Re: VW Valve covers (phil brookman) 3. Re: Subaru Vs others (Phil Matheson) 4. Re: VW Valve covers (Orma) 5. Re: Subaru Vs others (Scott William) 6. any takers??? (sixfeetsmall@alaweb.com) 7. Hardware (Scott William) 8. Re: Hardware (w.higdon9604@comcast.net) 9. Re: Hardware (Dan Heath) 10. Re: VW Valve covers (Scott Cable) 11. Re: Hardware (Scott William) 12. Re: Hardware (Scott William) 13. Re: Hardware (w.higdon9604@comcast.net) 14. Re: Hardware (Robert Morrissey) 15. Engine Torque (Colin Rainey) 16. Re: Hardware (Orma) 17. RE: Hardware (Brian Kraut) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:11:57 -0700 From: "Lee Van Dyke" Subject: KR> VW Valve covers To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006801c5c0ce$de3fb440$6601a8c0@SNAKEBITE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" VW heads..... I have the cast alum valve covers and have some oil leakage. Those of you with the stamped covers with the springs,,, have you noticed any oil leaks??? Do you have any suggestions for stopping the leaks???? Lee Van Dyke Mesa AZ Lee@vandyke5.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:55:32 +0100 From: "phil brookman" Subject: Re: KR> VW Valve covers To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001301c5c0e5$b88b0710$73a51352@philljl2re6t9i> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 i use silicon clear gasket gue but use sparingly on the face as you dont want it going in the engine p ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Van Dyke" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 7:11 AM Subject: KR> VW Valve covers > VW heads..... > > I have the cast alum valve covers and have some oil leakage. Those of > you with the stamped covers with the springs,,, have you noticed any oil leaks??? Do you have any suggestions for stopping the leaks???? > Lee Van Dyke > Mesa AZ > Lee@vandyke5.com > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.4/109 - Release Date: > 21/09/2005 > > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 24402 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.4/109 - Release Date: 21/09/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:26:19 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Subaru Vs others To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008c01c5c0f2$92b37420$b6aa443d@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Any opinions in regard to engines? http://www.vw-engines.com/ Don't overlook VW engines RG2000 or RG2000EFI 100hp 1.6 helical Gear reduction. 200ft lbs torque turn over a 60inch prop or a large pitch. Phil Matheson mathesonp@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ http://corvair.vw-engines.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 06:54:30 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> VW Valve covers To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003401c5c0f6$586614e0$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I have used both the cast alum and the stamped covers on my type 4. The stamped ones are lighter and do not leak. I use non hardening prematex on the cover side only and nothing on the head side. Orma ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 04:15:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott William Subject: Re: KR> Subaru Vs others To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050924111515.65904.qmail@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Ok, so let me see if I am not reading this with blurry eyes.... Do you really believe the claims of these guys? I quote: "This engine based on the type 1 VW engine produces an incredible 200ft lb + Torque and with 85 Horsepower driven through our Helical Gear Drive will surely give your Aircraft what it needs up front" So, let me see if my old race engine math is working today... If this motor is producing 85hp and 200ft/lb of torque... with HP = torque * rpm / 5252, that would mean that this motor is producing 200 ft/lbs of torque at 2232 rpm. Why does he use a gear reduction drive with that many ponies at that low of an rpm? Look at it this way.... If he's running it at 4500 rpm and using a gear drive, that means 200*4500/5252 = 171 horsepower. Wow....he's some kind of magician to be making 1.3 hp per cubic inch. 1 per cube was always the majic number for street racers. Reality is this....ask him what RPM his horsepower number represents. Chances are it's 4500. At that RPM, he's producing more like 100 ft/lbs of torque. Then ask yourself how long that motor will live turning that fast.... I know a drag motor only has to live for 10 seconds. Advertising hype...... Scott --- Phil Matheson wrote: > Any opinions in regard to engines? > > http://www.vw-engines.com/ > > Don't overlook VW engines RG2000 or RG2000EFI > > 100hp 1.6 helical Gear reduction. 200ft lbs torque > turn over a 60inch prop > or a > large pitch. > > > > Phil Matheson > mathesonp@dodo.com.au > VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) > 61 3 58833588 > Australia.( Down Under) > See My KR2 Building Web Page at: > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html > See our VW Engines and Home built web page at > http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ > http://corvair.vw-engines.com/ > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:06:24 -600 From: sixfeetsmall@alaweb.com Subject: KR> any takers??? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <43355d60.1b5c.0@alaweb.com> I have posted several messages for the sale of my KR-1 and sent out pictures to everyone who asked. I have never heard back whether anyone received the pics and if they were interested. If you are, please e-mail your response to sixfeetsmall@alaweb.con Andy Lee ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:47:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott William Subject: KR> Hardware To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050924184701.94782.qmail@web31510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Ok.....I've done my homework and I understand the difference between ASE graded hardware and AN standard hardware. Has anyone here used titanium bolts in thier airframe? Other than FAA examiner scrutiny (such as with the WAF) is there any reason not to use them besides price? Scott __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:46:45 +0000 From: w.higdon9604@comcast.net Subject: Re: KR> Hardware To: KRnet Message-ID: <092420051946.14145.4335AD24000DCF05000037412200737478CBCFC0C702010B090708D299@comcast.net> Scott, Along tima ago I worked with Ti Bolts on F-4's. There is a NAS spec for them, and if they meet or exceed the strength for AN Bolts, us them and if the FAA questions then show them the Spec. Bill Higdon > > Ok.....I've done my homework and I understand the > difference between ASE graded hardware and AN standard hardware. Has > anyone here used titanium bolts in thier airframe? Other than FAA > examiner scrutiny (such as with the WAF) is there any reason not to > use them besides price? > > > Scott > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:54:52 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Hardware To: Message-ID: <4335BD1C.000001.03144@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think you mean SAE and ??WHY??, when AN is sufficient? See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- Ok.....I've done my homework and I understand the difference between ASE graded hardware and AN standard hardware. Has anyone here used titanium bolts in thier airframe? Other than FAA examiner scrutiny (such as with the WAF) is there any reason not to use them besides price? ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:25:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR> VW Valve covers To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050924212533.34158.qmail@web53011.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Lee and others; The way that I seal valve covers ( I have used both the stamped and cast aluminum style) is that the covers get soaked in carb cleaner to remove all paint and old gasket material. I then wash it with de-natured alcohol, to remove all traces of the carb cleaner. You can also clean them by bead or media blasting. Bottom-line: they look brand new when the covers are what I call clean. For stamped covers, I then paint the outside with high temperature gloss header paint. After the paint drys, I take the new gaskets, coat the mating sufaces of the gasket and the cover with 3M weatherstrip adhesive or Mr Gasket Gasket Cinch. After they get tacky, I position the gaskets in place. I then wipe a small bead or fillet of silicone between the gasket and the cover (vertical walls). Before I install the cover, I brush a film of white lithium grease on the mating surface of the gasket. The grease allows the cover to be repeatably removed and re-installed without tearing the gasket. I brush on a new film of white lithium grease before I re-install the cover each time (cut a hole in the center of your white lithium grease-lid and put an acid brush in it.) One more thing to check: remove the valve cover spring-bails and make sure they are flat, and that the ends are not bent. The ends should be co-linear. If they aren't, bend them so they are so when they are installed in the heads. I've never had one leak-- ever! Lee Van Dyke wrote: I have the cast alum valve covers and have some oil leakage. Those of you with the stamped covers with the springs,,, have you noticed any oil leaks??? Do you have any suggestions for stopping the leaks???? Scott Cable Jamestown, ND s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:41:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott William Subject: Re: KR> Hardware To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050924214105.82698.qmail@web31515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Why? Titanium is a whole lot lighter than AN. ANd yes, I meant SAE. Scott --- Dan Heath wrote: > I think you mean SAE and ??WHY??, when AN is > sufficient? > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering > > See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on > the pics > > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING > and the time for building > has expired. > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > -------Original Message------- > > Ok.....I've done my homework and I understand the > > difference between ASE graded hardware and AN > standard > > hardware. Has anyone here used titanium bolts in > thier > > airframe? Other than FAA examiner scrutiny (such as > > with the WAF) is there any reason not to use them > > besides price? > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:49:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott William Subject: Re: KR> Hardware To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050924224926.71612.qmail@web31507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 It seems the MS system has replaced the NAS...am I correct in this or am I reading wrong? --- w.higdon9604@comcast.net wrote: > Scott, > Along tima ago I worked with Ti Bolts on F-4's. > There is a NAS spec for them, and if they meet or > exceed the strength for AN Bolts, us them and if the > FAA questions then show them the Spec. > Bill Higdon > > > > > > Ok.....I've done my homework and I understand the difference between > > ASE graded hardware and AN > standard > > hardware. Has anyone here used titanium bolts in > thier > > airframe? Other than FAA examiner scrutiny (such > as > > with the WAF) is there any reason not to use them > > besides price? > > > > > > Scott > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 23:06:41 +0000 From: w.higdon9604@comcast.net Subject: Re: KR> Hardware To: KRnet Message-ID: <092420052306.8374.4335DC01000BFE2A000020B62200737478CBCFC0C702010B090708D299@comcast.net> AFIK nope 2 different systems, MS is for a lot of military Hardware some of which winds uop in Aircraft, but NAS replaced the old AN for Aerospace work. Here is a link to both http://www.lib.iastate.edu/services1/ref/standards.html Bill > It seems the MS system has replaced the NAS...am I > correct in this or am I reading wrong? > > --- w.higdon9604@comcast.net wrote: > > > Scott, > > Along tima ago I worked with Ti Bolts on F-4's. > > There is a NAS spec for them, and if they meet or > > exceed the strength for AN Bolts, us them and if the > > FAA questions then show them the Spec. > > Bill Higdon > > > > > > > > > > Ok.....I've done my homework and I understand the difference > > > between ASE graded hardware and AN > > standard > > > hardware. Has anyone here used titanium bolts in > > thier > > > airframe? Other than FAA examiner scrutiny (such > > as > > > with the WAF) is there any reason not to use them > > > besides price? > > > > > > > > > Scott ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:35:44 -0400 From: "Robert Morrissey" Subject: Re: KR> Hardware To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000801c5c160$afb93960$6402a8c0@com.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Scott: The DC-10 airliner used a lot of titanium hardware in the airframe. The bolts are NAS 6400 series (I have a NAS6404-32 48 in my hand). For the leading edge slat (flight controls) cable pulleys the design called for a NAS 654V1G bolt with an all metal castellated low height dry film lubed nut. I am unaware of any special treatments required for dissimilar metal protection. I do not remember the washer details. Since my aircraft is not to the stage of bolting the WAFs I expect that the WAFs are bolted together with wet primer followed by a coat of paint. Bob Morrissey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott William" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 2:47 PM Subject: KR> Hardware > > Ok.....I've done my homework and I understand the > difference between ASE graded hardware and AN standard hardware. Has > anyone here used titanium bolts in thier airframe? Other than FAA > examiner scrutiny (such as with the WAF) is there any reason not to > use them besides price? > > > Scott > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:54:46 -0400 From: "Colin Rainey" Subject: KR> Engine Torque To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <410-22005962423544631@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Scott One correction you have to make to your numbers is the fact that you are figuring everything direct drive, not taking into account torque multiplication through the gear drive. Torque ends up multiplied by the factor of the reduction. This is how turbo prop engines make such big numbers with such small power plants. They are set up on something on the order of like 16 to 1 or 20 to 1. 50 foot pounds of torque at the shaft is multiplied by the gear reduction by the percentage reduction, ie: 16 x 50 = 900 foot pounds at the prop. This is like the PT6 Pratt & Whitney engine, that can be turned down from its 1500 hp max, to around 400-600 for other applications ( Saratoga hop up conversions). So a VW making 60 hp and 85 foot pounds of torque through a 1.6 to 1 reduction drive would make 60% more power or 136 foot pounds of torque at the prop. Just food for thought. More info in Richard Finch's book on auto engine conversions.... Colin Rainey brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:23:51 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> Hardware To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002201c5c178$2cbb0ee0$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hardware standards NAS = National Aerospace AN = Army Navy MS = Military Standard SAE = Society of Automotive Engineers I think that AN is the oldest of the one's listed. I had to learn the exact differences, times in history and other info when I joined the Air force almost 40 years ago and it's probably only necessary to know that if you want to know the exact meaning of the standard, it is written down in a book somewhere. Orma ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:56:36 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Hardware To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I looked into it a while back. I wanted to see what the price difference and the weight difference would be. After doing some reasearch on the web I found that you could find all kinds of low priced aircraft grade titanium bolts on EBAY. If most of them were used, rejects, surplus, counterfeit AN bolts made in China, who knows. All the places I found that sold real certified bolts didn't have online pricing. The thing that made me stop looking was information about lubing the threads correctly before putting the nuts on and critical torques to keep them from snapping. I got the impression that you really needed to know what you were doing if you were going to replace high stressed bolts in structural areas and most of the weight in bolts on a KR are high stress in structural areas. Even if they have the same or higher tensile strength as what you are replacing there are other considerations such as ductility and other things that I don't know enough about to know if you can use them where I wanted. I did come up with tons of links for titanium bolt replacement kits for racing bicycles and they were all pretty expensive. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Scott William Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 2:47 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Hardware Ok.....I've done my homework and I understand the difference between ASE graded hardware and AN standard hardware. Has anyone here used titanium bolts in thier airframe? Other than FAA examiner scrutiny (such as with the WAF) is there any reason not to use them besides price? Scott __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 378 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================