From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 403 Date: 10/11/2005 9:00:26 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Fuselage lofting (Dan Heath) 2. Re: Fuselage lofting (Ron Smith) 3. Re: Spitfire/Bunyip (Steve Bray) 4. Re: Fuselage lofting (Dan Heath) 5. rudder return springs. (harold woods) 6. Re: rudder return springs. (w.higdon9604@comcast.net) 7. Re: Spitfire (w.higdon9604@comcast.net) 8. Re: rudder return springs. (3343V) 9. Re: rudder return springs. (Mark Jones) 10. Re: rudder return springs. (w.higdon9604@comcast.net) 11. Kr1 (Ryan) 12. Re: rudder return springs. (Jim Morehead) 13. Re: rudder return springs. (w.higdon9604@comcast.net) 14. Rudder pedals (Colin Rainey) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:05:58 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Fuselage lofting To: Message-ID: <434C2936.000011.04032@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have never understood what the issue is with building the banana boat, is. I do think that if you could get the widest point back closer to the shoulders, it would be better for comfort, but I don't know how that would affect the aerodynamics. Has anyone ever flown one of these "non banana boat" KRs? I have never seen one at a gathering or anywhere else. It seems that if it were such a great thing to do, like the new wing and the stretch, that everyone would be doing it. I am now very close to finishing my second "banana boat", my first one flew fine, and I expect that this one will also. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- avoid the banana boat. You will be glad you did, ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:54:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Ron Smith Subject: Re: KR> Fuselage lofting To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051011225425.64968.qmail@web81708.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 --- Dan Heath wrote: > I have never understood what the issue is with > building the banana boat, is. > I do think that if you could get the widest point > back closer to the > shoulders, it would be better for comfort, but I > don't know how that would > affect the aerodynamics. Has anyone ever flown one > of these "non banana > boat" KRs? I have never seen one at a gathering or > anywhere else. It seems > that if it were such a great thing to do, like the > new wing and the stretch, > that everyone would be doing it. I am now very > close to finishing my second > "banana boat", my first one flew fine, and I expect > that this one will also. > > Hello Dan, You've never seen one? You will. I need at least 3 more years though :) Ron Smith Kr2ssxl Cypress Ca U.S.A. mercedesmann@yahoo.com http://ronsmith.myphotoalbum.com/albums.php ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:56:14 -0500 From: "Steve Bray" Subject: Re: KR> Spitfire/Bunyip To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed John What is a bunyip? Steve Bray Jackson, Tennessee >From: "Martindale Family" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: "KRnet" >Subject: Re: KR> Spitfire >Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:11:27 +1000 > >There is rumoured to be a pirate, unregistered and camoflaged Spitfire >operating in the remote guts of Australia. It has been reported on many >occasions but has never been tracked down or found by the >authorities.....it took them long enough to find a rebel Pawnee >cropduster with a V8 Chev motor >long before experimental came along in this country...and yes I do believe >in bunyips and yetis. > >John > >The Martindale Family >29 Jane Circuit >Toormina NSW 2452 >Australia > >ph: 61 2 66 584767 >email: johnjanet@optusnet.com.au >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Frank Ross" >To: "KRnet" >Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:17 AM >Subject: KR> Spitfire > > > > When was the last time you saw a Spitfire fly over > > your neighborhood? I just did. > > Went for a walk and heard a plane approaching. > > Civilian planes fly over our bases here all the time, > > so I wasn't surprised, but did look because there was > > just something about the sound. It was unmistakenly a Spitfire! > > Flying West to East. Beautiful! There are a fair number of Spits > > restored and flying in Britain but it is a real treat to see one fly > > over just out for a spin and enjoying a great plane on a > > great day. > > Thought you would like to know. > > Frank > > PS, KR, KR, KR. Okay, that's the KR part. > > > > Frank Ross, > > EAA Chapter 35, > > San Geronimo, TX > > RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England, UK > > Visit my photo album at: > > http://photos.yahoo.com/alamokr2 > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:02:51 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Fuselage lofting To: Message-ID: <434C449B.000019.04032@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I will be looking for it. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- You've never seen one? You will. I need at least 3 more years though :) Ron Smith ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:22:11 -0400 From: "harold woods" Subject: KR> rudder return springs. To: Message-ID: <001401c5ceba$9bea4e30$0401a8c0@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Netters Re rudder return springs. I one flew Jodel which had return springs. One day the left rudder on my side (pilot) became un stuck and the rudder pedal fell flat on the floor. I could not get it up. I had no rudder control. My passenger was able to get out of his harness , get down on the floor , raise the pedal until I could get my foot on it. Thus control, again. We landed without any problem, My KR2M has a continuous loop. further more a system of pulleys on the cables infront of the rudder pedals has a spring tension built into it. Thus at all times there is about 35 lbs. tension in the rudder cable. It operates smoothly and is fail safe (I hope). Rehards Hariold Woods Orillia,ON. Canada haroldwoods@rogers.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:50:35 +0000 From: w.higdon9604@comcast.net Subject: Re: KR> rudder return springs. To: harold woods , KRnet Message-ID: <101120052350.11559.434C4FCA000E006900002D272200750330CBCFC0C702010B090708D299@comcast.net> My 2 cents worth is that you need either a closed loop or some thing to prevent the rudder pedal from going all the to the floor, or firewall. This is recommended in one of Tony B's books. And the reason is shown by a friends accident back in the mid 60's he was flying along in his Luscombe 8E when one of the rudder springs broke. The other peddle went to the firewall with no way in flight to get it back to neutral. He did a spiral in from 2000ft AGL. He was very lucky there was about10 ft of soft snow where he impacted the ground. Ohterwise he may not have lived through it. Bill Higdon > Hi Netters > Re rudder return springs. I one flew Jodel which had return springs. > One day > the left rudder on my side (pilot) became un stuck and the rudder pedal fell > flat on the floor. I could not get it up. I had no rudder control. My > passenger was able to get out of his harness , get down on the floor , raise > the pedal until I could get my foot on it. Thus control, again. We landed > without any problem, > My KR2M has a continuous loop. further more a system of pulleys on the > cables infront of the rudder pedals has a spring tension built into it. Thus > at all times there is about 35 lbs. tension in the rudder cable. It operates > smoothly and is fail safe (I hope). > Rehards > Hariold Woods > Orillia,ON. Canada > haroldwoods@rogers.com > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:06:14 +0000 From: w.higdon9604@comcast.net Subject: Re: KR> Spitfire To: KRnet Message-ID: <101220050006.7480.434C53760003FAFD00001D382206424613CBCFC0C702010B090708D299@comcast.net> Come now mate everyone knows the bunyips are the Australiam cousin of the Yeti/abominable snowman. Bill Higdon > There is rumoured to be a pirate, unregistered and camoflaged Spitfire > operating in the remote guts of Australia. It has been reported on > many occasions but has never been tracked down or found by the > authorities.....it took them long enough to find a rebel Pawnee > cropduster with a V8 Chev motor long before experimental came along in > this country...and yes I do believe in bunyips and yetis. > > John > > The Martindale Family > 29 Jane Circuit > Toormina NSW 2452 > Australia > > ph: 61 2 66 584767 > email: johnjanet@optusnet.com.au ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:50:22 -0500 From: "3343V" <3343v@swbell.net> Subject: Re: KR> rudder return springs. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00fe01c5cec6$f02fad30$0c00a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original w.higdon9604@comcast.net wrote: > My 2 cents worth is that you need either a closed loop or some thing > to prevent the rudder pedal from going all the to the floor, or > firewall. This is recommended in one of Tony B's books. > > And the reason is shown by a friends accident back in the mid 60's he > was flying along in his Luscombe 8E when one of the rudder springs > broke. The other peddle went to the firewall with no way in flight to > get it back to neutral. He did a spiral in from 2000ft AGL. He was > very lucky there was about10 ft of soft snow where he impacted the > ground. Ohterwise he may not have lived through it. Bill Higdon I fully agree that all control systems should be closed loop, and will be in any aircraft I fly, but I'm not seeing how broken springs could keep you from having rudder control. Shouldn't pushing on one pedal raise the other? In other words, the loop is closed through the pilot. My 150's cables are a bit stretched and both pedals go in bit when you put your feet on the pedals, but I still have 100% control of everything involved (though the nose gear steering needs some help from the brakes). -- Steve 3343v@swbell.net N3343V- '75 C150M N205FT- KR1 #6170 He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:09:50 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> rudder return springs. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <007d01c5cec9$a5e19560$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > And the reason is shown by a friends accident back in the mid 60's > > he was flying along in his Luscombe 8E when one of the rudder > > springs broke. The other peddle went to the firewall with no way in > > flight to get it back to neutral. You guys have mentioned that if the rudder spring fails that the pedal will fall towards the firewall and possibly to the floor if the pedal is mounted far enough from the firewall. Honestly, that type of failure should never happen even without a closed loop. Here's why....The left rudder cable runs from the rudder down the left inside of the fuselage to the left rudder pedal on pilots side. The cable does not go to the firewall. From the pedal to the firewall there is a spring. The right rudder cable runs from the rudder down the right inside of the fuselage to the right rudder pedal on passenger side. Again, the cable does not go to the firewall. From the pedal to the firewall there is a spring. Thus if one of the tension springs were to break, the only way the pedal can fall is toward the pilot. There is no way the pedal will fall toward the firewall unless a cable breaks. If a spring does break, your feet will keep the pedals up and taught enought to utilize the rudder. Secondly, If you have toe brakes like I do, then the brake cylinder will prevent the pedal from falling all the way to the floor if you were to remove your feet. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:12:56 +0000 From: w.higdon9604@comcast.net Subject: Re: KR> rudder return springs. To: KRnet Message-ID: <101220050212.27360.434C71280004674400006AE02206998499CBCFC0C702010B090708D299@comcast.net> Mark, If your feet aren't in place to stop the pedal it could go so that one hits the firewall and one the floor. And Luscombs have heel brakes. Bill Higdon > > > And the reason is shown by a friends accident back in the mid 60's > > > he was flying along in his Luscombe 8E when one of the rudder > > > springs broke. The other peddle went to the firewall with no way > > > in flight to get it back to neutral. > > You guys have mentioned that if the rudder spring fails that the pedal > will fall towards the firewall and possibly to the floor if the pedal > is mounted far enough from the firewall. Honestly, that type of > failure should never happen even without a closed loop. Here's > why....The left rudder cable runs from the rudder down the left inside > of the fuselage to the left rudder pedal on pilots side. The cable > does not go to the firewall. From the pedal to the firewall there is a > spring. The right rudder cable runs from the rudder down the right > inside of the fuselage to the right rudder pedal on passenger side. > Again, the cable does not go to the firewall. From the pedal to the > firewall there is a spring. Thus if one of the tension springs were to > break, the only way the pedal can fall is toward the pilot. There is > no way the pedal will fall toward the firewall unless a cable breaks. > If a spring does break, your feet will keep the pedals up and taught > enought to utilize the rudder. Secondly, If you have toe brakes like I > do, then the brake cylinder will prevent the pedal from falling all > the way to the floor if you were to remove your feet. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:25:05 -0700 From: "Ryan" Subject: KR> Kr1 To: Message-ID: <200510120224.j9C2OtFf014027@ms-smtp-01-eri0.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What is the firewall f.s. location in inches? I just bought a Kr1 and need this to do a W&B. Ryan ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:22:19 -0700 From: Jim Morehead Subject: Re: KR> rudder return springs. To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Netters, I don't understand. It seems to me that if a spring breaks and the left rudder peddle hits the firewall you should have full left rudder. Why not push on the right rudder peddle to bring it back. Or you saying the right rudder peddle has fallen back toward you and is flat on the floor? Jim Morehead Cameron park, CA Wiring up the panel on 10/11/05 7:12 PM, w.higdon9604@comcast.net at w.higdon9604@comcast.net wrote: > Mark, > If your feet aren't in place to stop the pedal it could go so that one > hits the firewall and one the floor. And Luscombs have heel brakes. > Bill Higdon > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:59:35 +0000 From: w.higdon9604@comcast.net Subject: Re: KR> rudder return springs. To: KRnet Message-ID: <101220050259.13885.434C7C170005FA350000363D2206998499CBCFC0C702010B090708D299@comcast.net> You got it Jim. It may have been a broken cable. However read the collect wisdom of Tony B., he built many a airplane in his life. Bill Higdon > Netters, > I don't understand. It seems to me that if a spring breaks and > the left rudder peddle hits the firewall you should have full left > rudder. Why not push on the right rudder peddle to bring it back. Or > you saying the right rudder peddle has fallen back toward you and is > flat on the floor? > > Jim Morehead > Cameron park, CA > > Wiring up the panel > > > on 10/11/05 7:12 PM, w.higdon9604@comcast.net at > w.higdon9604@comcast.net > wrote: > > > Mark, > > If your feet aren't in place to stop the pedal it could go so that > > one hits the firewall and one the floor. And Luscombs have heel > > brakes. Bill Higdon > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:52:25 -0400 From: "Colin Rainey" Subject: KR> Rudder pedals To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <410-220051031235225953@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII So just add limiting straps or blocks or some other device to prevent movement further than full deflection each way, as others have described for the stick, and no more problem with losing the rudder. And if I can taxi back with a tail wheel stuck to one side after doing for "donuts" on a taxiway with aircraft traffic behind me watching, I can land the plane with a deflected rudder! A GM late model CS alternator puts out 80 to 120 amps, more than enough for any KR if the out put is cut in half with partial failure. When you deduct the weight of the Diehl generator, and add what the alternator and brackets weigh, you gained about 5 pounds, in an area where it doesn't hurt much, and tripled your power. I can transmit, run all lights, and have all accessories on including the CD player and still not max out the alternator. I may add power windows just for fun..... NAH! Starting the engine conversion tomorrow..... Colin Rainey brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 403 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================