From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 404 Date: 10/12/2005 2:49:59 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: rudder return springs. (3343V) 2. Re: Kr1 (Dan Heath) 3. Re: Spitfire/Bunyip (Martindale Family) 4. Re: rudder return springs. (w.higdon9604@comcast.net) 5. Re: rudder return springs. (Orma) 6. Re: rudder return springs. (larry flesner) 7. Diehl Accessory Case (Orma) 8. Re: Diehl Accessory Case (Orma) 9. RE: rudder return springs. (Golden, Kevin) 10. Re: Kr1 (larry flesner) 11. RE: rudder return springs. (larry flesner) 12. Re: Kr1 (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 13. W&B formula (Colin Rainey) 14. Re: W&B formula (Scott William) 15. Re: Kr1 (Frank Ross) 16. Re: Kr1 (Frank Ross) 17. Re: Fuselage lofting (Ron Smith) 18. Re: Kr1 (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 19. Re: Kr1 (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 20. Re: rudder return springs. (3343V) 21. Re: Fuselage lofting (3343V) 22. Re: Fuselage lofting (Bavo) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:59:00 -0500 From: "3343V" <3343v@swbell.net> Subject: Re: KR> rudder return springs. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <014701c5cee9$abcb0cc0$0c00a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original w.higdon9604@comcast.net wrote: > Mark, > If your feet aren't in place to stop the pedal it could go so that one > hits the firewall and one the floor. And Luscombs have heel brakes. > Bill Higdon But what about the rudder trying to center itself? With a broken cable I could see it deflecting a little because of the spring, but they'd have to be pretty massive springs to overcome air pressure on the rudder. -- Steve 3343v@swbell.net N3343V- '75 C150M N205FT- KR1 #6170 He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 05:37:42 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Kr1 To: Message-ID: <434CD966.00002E.04032@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Don't know what "firewall f.s." is, but you don't need anything to do a WB. Pick a datum, I used the firewall, and measure everything from that point. There are spread sheets on the site to help you with this. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- What is the firewall f.s. location in inches? I just bought a Kr1 and need this to do a W&B. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:26:00 +1000 From: "Martindale Family" Subject: Re: KR> Spitfire/Bunyip To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005501c5cf1f$b9670740$6e55ecdc@martindale> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Off topic but here goes. A nocturnal Australian beast with a eerie call resembling a woman wailing or a pilot on first solo in his KR. Often heard in the vicinity of billabongs around the campfire late at night and closely related to Bundy Bear. Never actually seen but known to be partial to Vegemite. The subject of several bush ballads and poems written by pioneer Aussie vagabonds. John PS: More trivia. I've discovered that if you program your GPS to be on lat/long 0/0 and ask it the distance and direction to 0/180 (ie., the other side of the world) it gets most confused as it attempts to calculate the world's equatorial circumference and divide by two. OK OK I'm gone now. The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit Toormina NSW 2452 Australia ph: 61 2 66 584767 email: johnjanet@optusnet.com.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Bray" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 8:56 AM Subject: Re: KR> Spitfire/Bunyip > John > What is a bunyip? > > Steve Bray > Jackson, Tennessee > > > > > >From: "Martindale Family" > >Reply-To: KRnet > >To: "KRnet" > >Subject: Re: KR> Spitfire > >Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:11:27 +1000 > > > >There is rumoured to be a pirate, unregistered and camoflaged > >Spitfire operating in the remote guts of Australia. It has been > >reported on many occasions but has never been tracked down or found > >by the authorities.....it took them long enough to find a rebel > >Pawnee cropduster with a V8 Chev motor > >long before experimental came along in this country...and yes I do believe > >in bunyips and yetis. > > > >John > > > >The Martindale Family > >29 Jane Circuit > >Toormina NSW 2452 > >Australia > > > >ph: 61 2 66 584767 > >email: johnjanet@optusnet.com.au > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Frank Ross" > >To: "KRnet" > >Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:17 AM > >Subject: KR> Spitfire > > > > > > > When was the last time you saw a Spitfire fly over > > > your neighborhood? I just did. > > > Went for a walk and heard a plane approaching. > > > Civilian planes fly over our bases here all the time, > > > so I wasn't surprised, but did look because there was just > > > something about the sound. It was unmistakenly a Spitfire! Flying > > > West to East. Beautiful! There are a fair number of Spits restored > > > and flying in Britain but it is a real treat to see one fly over > > > just out for a spin and enjoying a great plane on a > > > great day. > > > Thought you would like to know. > > > Frank > > > PS, KR, KR, KR. Okay, that's the KR part. > > > > > > Frank Ross, > > > EAA Chapter 35, > > > San Geronimo, TX > > > RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England, UK > > > Visit my photo album at: > > > http://photos.yahoo.com/alamokr2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > >_______________________________________ > >Search the KRnet Archives at > >http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:21:11 +0000 From: w.higdon9604@comcast.net Subject: Re: KR> rudder return springs. To: KRnet Message-ID: <101220051221.6812.434CFFB700061FDE00001A9C2206998499CBCFC0C702010B090708D299@comcast.net> Steve, If you've ever flown a Luscombe you'd know the answer. They have a very light rudder. Bill > w.higdon9604@comcast.net wrote: > > Mark, > > If your feet aren't in place to stop the pedal it could go so that > > one hits the firewall and one the floor. And Luscombs have heel > > brakes. Bill Higdon > > But what about the rudder trying to center itself? With a broken cable > I > could see it deflecting a little because of the spring, but they'd have to > be pretty massive springs to overcome air pressure on the rudder. > -- > Steve > 3343v@swbell.net > N3343V- '75 C150M > N205FT- KR1 #6170 > He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:48:03 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> rudder return springs. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00c601c5cf2b$31357ee0$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Ok I can see that some of you spend too much time on your computer and not enough time building. First of all with me in my KR, if I had no springs, no cables, and no brakes attached to my rudder peddles, they still would have no place to fall except on my feet or shin bones. Get back to the KR and install the dual peddles that most of you have and you'll see that there is not really a problem. I flew my KR with the peddles mounted on the floor with no spring for a few years and finally installed a spring to get rid of the slop when my feet were occasionally retracted from the peddles. Your feet can't go far, there is just no room. At the present time my peddles are hung from the shelf and unless they drop off, they just hang. Springs are nice to have, but you can get by without them. With heal brakes, there is still no place for the peddle to fall with you in the cockpit. Orma Southfield, MI KR-2 N110LR 1984 See Tweety at http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com See other KR spces at www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/krinfo.htm ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:49:40 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> rudder return springs. To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20051012074940.0088b390@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > And the reason is shown by a friends accident back in the mid 60's he > was flying along in his Luscombe 8E when one of the rudder springs broke. The other peddle went to the firewall with no way in flight to get it back to neutral. >Bill Higdon ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It sounds more like a cable break than a return spring break. I can't imagine flying a Luscombe without both feet on the rudders so if a spirng breaks it really shouldn't effect control. It also sounds like a lot more spring pressure than necessary. You only need enough spring tension to keep the cables from going slack. They don't need to be tensioned. My rudders are mounted on top so if one spring breaks, and I can't imagine what would cause a spring to fail when not in motion, that pedal will move toward me a few inches. I can then center the rudder with my feet. If you're worried about a spring breaking and the pedal "flopping" to the floor, put a stop of some kind on it. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:02:17 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: KR> Diehl Accessory Case To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00cd01c5cf2d$2dcb66f0$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Some time in the past I used the Diehl case. It is a good product and provided the answer for several problems, the biggest of which was the starter that could not turn the bigger engines. I like a lot of electrics and did not like the limited amps. I mainly used a Volks Power case (out of production) and recently modified it to use the same starter as the Diehl case. I looked at the Diehl case trying to determine if it could be modified to accept a belt drive and slot to run a normal automotive alternator. I determined that it could be done, but required too much work. A different flywheel would be needed and the offset for the starter would have to be changed. You would have to get some one to make a combination mag drive and V pulley to fit in the mag drive hole. You would have to cut the case for a belt to pass outside and last but not easy you would have to have an area of the back of the case stiffened to be able to mount the alternator to. Perhaps any one interested in such a case could call Dan and investigate his willingness to develop a new product. You never know. Orma Southfield, MI KR-2 N110LR 1984 See Tweety at http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com See other KR spces at www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/krinfo.htm ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:09:13 -0400 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> Diehl Accessory Case To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00d401c5cf2e$25f781b0$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Also my good friend Brian thinks that he can modify an alternator so that it can be installed into the mag drive hole and run as a direct drive unit. If you're not using a mag, that's a good idea to attempt. Orma L. Robbins ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:22:06 -0400 From: "Golden, Kevin" Subject: RE: KR> rudder return springs. To: "harold woods" , "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was flying my Tr2 (Grumman) that has springs and one broke just as the plane lifted from the ground. A HUGE bang was heard and a hard pull on the other pedal. After figuring out what had happened, I flew it on to my destination that was 80 miles away. My leg sure was tired by the time I arrived home! Two new springs and I was back in business. Kevin. -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of harold woods Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 6:22 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> rudder return springs. Hi Netters Re rudder return springs. I one flew Jodel which had return springs. One day the left rudder on my side (pilot) became un stuck and the rudder pedal fell flat on the floor. I could not get it up. I had no rudder control. My passenger was able to get out of his harness , get down on the floor , raise the pedal until I could get my foot on it. Thus control, again. We landed without any problem, My KR2M has a continuous loop. further more a system of pulleys on the cables infront of the rudder pedals has a spring tension built into it. Thus at all times there is about 35 lbs. tension in the rudder cable. It operates smoothly and is fail safe (I hope). Rehards Hariold Woods Orillia,ON. Canada haroldwoods@rogers.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html *The information contained in this message may be confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is for the use of the intended addressee only. Any unauthorized use, dissemination or copying of the information in this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message.* ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:32:25 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Kr1 To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20051012083225.00819280@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Don't know what "firewall f.s." is, but you don't need anything to do a >WB. Pick a datum, I used the firewall, and measure everything from that >point. There are spread sheets on the site to help you with this. >Daniel R. Heath ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The critical information you need is the location and range of the CG. You can pick any point to take your measurements from. I picked the front side of the prop flange so I was working with only positive numbers. Also, if the fuselage length was changed from the firewall to the forward spar, it would give you false numbers. The KR2 has the CG location and range in the area of the forward spar. I would think the KR1 is similar but find a set of plans an get the corect info. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:36:53 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: RE: KR> rudder return springs. To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20051012083653.00794860@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I was flying my Tr2 (Grumman) that has springs and one broke just as >the plane lifted from the ground. A HUGE bang was heard and a hard >pull on the other pedal. After figuring out what had happened, I flew >it on to my destination that was 80 miles away. My leg sure was tired >by the time I arrived home! Two new springs and I was back in >business. Kevin. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If a return spring breaks in a KR and you hear a HUGE bang, you're using WAY TOO MUCH SPRING. All you need is enough to take the slack out of the cables. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:10:20 -0400 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> Kr1 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051012.101329.3304.2.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii BUY a set of plans, Virg On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:32:25 -0500 larry flesner writes: > > >Don't know what "firewall f.s." is, but you don't need anything to > do a WB. > >Pick a datum, I used the firewall, and measure everything from that > point. > >There are spread sheets on the site to help you with this. > >Daniel R. Heath > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > The critical information you need is the location and range of the > CG. > > You can pick any point to take your measurements from. I picked the > front side of the prop flange so I was working with only positive > numbers. > > Also, if the fuselage length was changed from the firewall to the > forward spar, it would give you false numbers. > > The KR2 has the CG location and range in the area of the forward spar. > I would think the KR1 is similar but find a set of plans an get the > corect info. > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:07:18 -0400 From: "Colin Rainey" Subject: KR> W&B formula To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <410-220051031215718375@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Just in case the formula is: weight x arm or station location = moment add all the weights first, then add all the moments and divide by the total weight. That is your CG in inches from your chosen point. If negative numbers bother you use the tip of the spinner or prop flange to have all positive. I used the firewall so that I could change props, cowlings, or even engines and it would not effect my first numbers, merely require substituting the new numbers from a re-weigh. Weigh the aircraft in the level flight attitude so that your numbers reflect the weight properly distributed as it would be in flight. Make your self a weight and balance table of 3 columns, weight, CG or arm, and moment. After calculating current takeoff weight, set up a separate column section below that for adjustments. Record a couple of known stations or distances for adding or deleting things (fuel, baggage, passenger, aux fuel) and then use these locations for making adjustments to keep the CG in the desired range, preferably the first 2 inches of the CG range published for the KR. Also calculate both takeoff AND landing after fuel burn! It makes a difference in ALL aircraft regardless of where your fuel is located. Flying with the CG at or beyond the forward limit will result in having to have speeds higher than published by others, and may lead to lack of elevator authority during a flare. Flying with a CG aft or back beyond the rearward CG limit will not only result in an aircraft that appears to be unstable due to its being "busy" (like balancing on the head of a pin) but can lead to an unrecoverable stall, or even a flat spin from a stall. Make several copies of this chart, a picture hand drawn helps even more with the visual understanding, and keep one in the airplane, the rest with the records of the plane. Practice different scenarios and run the numbers. Don't rely on memory! Calculate it each time you make a change to how you load the plane. It is a requirement of the FAA regs to calculate with each flight and a safe thing to do. HAPPY FLYING! Colin Rainey brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:21:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott William Subject: Re: KR> W&B formula To: brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net, KRnet Message-ID: <20051012152159.19159.qmail@web31501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Now this is helpful for those of us that have a hard time adding two plus two!!! It equals five, by the way.... Thanks Colin!!! Scott --- Colin Rainey wrote: > Just in case the formula is: > weight x arm or station location = moment > add all the weights first, then add all the moments > and divide by the total weight. That is your CG in > inches from your chosen point. > If negative numbers bother you use the tip of the > spinner or prop flange to have all positive. I used > the firewall so that I could change props, cowlings, > or even engines and it would not effect my first > numbers, merely require substituting the new numbers > from a re-weigh. Weigh the aircraft in the level > flight attitude so that your numbers reflect the > weight properly distributed as it would be in > flight. Make your self a weight and balance table of > 3 columns, weight, CG or arm, and moment. After > calculating current takeoff weight, set up a > separate column section below that for adjustments. > Record a couple of known stations or distances for > adding or deleting things (fuel, baggage, passenger, > aux fuel) and then use these locations for making > adjustments to keep the CG in the desired range, > preferably the first 2 inches of the CG range > published for the KR. Also calculate both takeoff > AND landing after fuel burn! It makes a difference > in ALL aircraft regardless of where your fuel is > located. Flying with the CG at or beyond the > forward limit will result in having to have speeds > higher than published by others, and may lead to > lack of elevator authority during a flare. Flying > with a CG aft or back beyond the rearward CG limit > will not only result in an aircraft that appears to > be unstable due to its being "busy" (like balancing > on the head of a pin) but can lead to an > unrecoverable stall, or even a flat spin from a > stall. > Make several copies of this chart, a picture hand > drawn helps even more with the visual understanding, > and keep one in the airplane, the rest with the > records of the plane. Practice different scenarios > and run the numbers. Don't rely on memory! > Calculate it each time you make a change to how you > load the plane. It is a requirement of the FAA regs > to calculate with each flight and a safe thing to > do. > > HAPPY FLYING! > > Colin Rainey > brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net > EarthLink Revolves Around You. _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:30:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Kr1 To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051012153055.66443.qmail@web32001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 To expand a little on Virg's Mantra... The first set of plans I ever got were a set of KR-1 plans. Don't bother. Buy a set of KR-2plans. The KR-1 plans may have gotten better, but I doubt it. Sure, they are cheap, but here's a case where you really DO get what you pay for. Or DONT get what you pay for. If you are an experienced builder, the KR-1 plans will probably be okay, but they just really are not worth even the little bit you pay for them when you can get so much more with the extra money you pay for the KR-2 plans. Sorry to go on like this, but since Virg uses so little band-width, I figure it's okay to take some of his. Thanks, Virg BTW, been to South Beach lately? Frank --- VIRGIL N SALISBURY wrote: > BUY a set of plans, Virg Frank Ross, EAA Chapter 35, San Geronimo, TX RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England, UK Visit my photo album at: http://photos.yahoo.com/alamokr2 __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:43:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Kr1 To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051012154310.96261.qmail@web32015.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sorry Ryan, I responded to Virg's reply before I saw your original question. In your case, I would follow the other guys' suggestions, but I'd also send off $65 for a set of KR-1 plans, as you may want to know how the thing was built. IF it was built to plans... Frank Younger than Virg, but better looking... Also went to a better High School... --- Ryan wrote: > What is the firewall f.s. location in inches? > I just bought a Kr1 and need this to do a W&B. > Ryan __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:50:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Ron Smith Subject: Re: KR> Fuselage lofting To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051012195038.59293.qmail@web81701.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Scott William wrote: Hey Ron!!! I liked your website...nice pics of the plane. I do have a few Q's though... WHen you kept the sides 90deg, how much area does that subtract from the stub wing area and how much does it affect lift? Also, I notice that on your foam/carbon fiber fuselage, you used what appears to be the stock locations and numbers of crossmembers, ect. I noticed that others have used different patterns and methods, ie: Barrios...how does using the foam/CF in the manner you did affect strength since there is not plywood to act as a gusset? I also noticed that you installed it one panel at a time on the sides...does this affect strength? Sorry to be long winded.... Hi Scott, As for the stub wing question, I think the lift loss is negligble. I lost more stub wing to the fact that I widened the fuse 6" than I did with the 90 construction. I am not worried about it in the least. My stub wings are about 20 inches. I did not want to reinvent the wheel, so I kept the fuselage trusses the same. The Carbon grafite skin is 5 times as strong as Eduard Barrios e glass. You could stand on the tail of my fuselage and it would not give a bit. It is very strong. The main reason I did it that way was to make it quiet. It is about the same weight as plywood. I just wanted a plane that was quiet, comfortable, and easy to make. That is why I did what I did. BTW the foam pieces are put in one at a time. They are just there to hold up the carbon and keep the shape. They offer little structural strength. The cabron is laid up in long pieces over many of the panels, overlapping by at least 2". I might lay up another layer of deck cloth to finish the fuse. I haven't decided on that yet though. Thanks for checking out my site. Ron Smith Kr2ssxl Cypress Ca U.S.A. mercedesmann@yahoo.com http://ronsmith.myphotoalbum.com/albums.php ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:12:16 -0400 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> Kr1 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051012.161756.3520.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NOPE, Virg On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Frank Ross writes: > To expand a little on Virg's Mantra... > The first set of plans I ever got were a set of KR-1 > plans. > Don't bother. Buy a set of KR-2plans. > The KR-1 plans may have gotten better, but I doubt it. > Sure, they are cheap, but here's a case where you > really DO get what you pay for. Or DONT get what you > pay for. > If you are an experienced builder, the KR-1 plans will > probably be okay, but they just really are not worth > even the little bit you pay for them when you can get > so much more with the extra money you pay for the KR-2 > plans. > Sorry to go on like this, but since Virg uses so > little band-width, I figure it's okay to take some of > his. > Thanks, Virg > BTW, been to South Beach lately? > Frank > > --- VIRGIL N SALISBURY wrote: > > > BUY a set of plans, Virg > > > Frank Ross, > EAA Chapter 35, > San Geronimo, TX > RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England, UK > Visit my photo album at: > http://photos.yahoo.com/alamokr2 > > > > __________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:14:26 -0400 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> Kr1 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051012.161756.3520.1.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Frank > Younger than Virg, but better looking...NAAHHHHH > Also went to a better High School... MIAMI HIGH, ONLY HIGH SCHOOL, Virg > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Music Unlimited > Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:00:11 -0500 From: "3343V" <3343v@swbell.net> Subject: Re: KR> rudder return springs. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008d01c5cf6f$f05b9360$0c00a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original w.higdon9604@comcast.net wrote: > Steve, > If you've ever flown a Luscombe you'd know the answer. They have a > very light rudder. Bill I have, but probably not what you're talking about. The one I got to fly had the rudder system closed through the nose gear, I believe. -- Steve 3343v@swbell.net N3343V- '75 C150M N205FT- KR1 #6170 He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 16:11:33 -0500 From: "3343V" <3343v@swbell.net> Subject: Re: KR> Fuselage lofting To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00b001c5cf71$866a1380$0c00a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original > > BTW the foam pieces are put in one at a time. They are just there to > hold up the carbon and keep the shape. They offer little structural > strength. You'd be suprised how much strength that foam is giving you. It's a shear member between the layers of carbon, same concept as building a spar with caps and plywood shear webs. I don't remember either the formula or the rule of thumb that gives strength increase for thickness of a core material, but I could look it up. It's something like doubling the distance between the skins doubles the strength, or something like that. Some discussion with someone way smarter than me almost convinced me that the spruce would just be there to mount stuff to. -- Steve 3343v@swbell.net N3343V- '75 C150M N205FT- KR1 #6170 He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 07:49:27 +1000 From: Bavo Subject: Re: KR> Fuselage lofting To: KRnet Message-ID: <830558f90510121449s31bd82d0gb193102c1e2eea34@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Ron, Great pics, and a very nice looking fuselage. Thanks for putting them on the web for us all. I've got very few ideas about most things, and NO idea about carbon. So here's a few quick qns to start: Where do you get it? What does it cost? Does it use the same resin as glass fibre? Does it require vacuum bagging or baking or anything else? How does the weight compare (your carbon & foam vs ply as per plans)? Thanks, John. -- http://au.geocities.com/johnbavington ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 404 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================