From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 413 Date: 10/17/2005 8:05:29 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Steve Jones (EAA Memorial Wall) (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 2. Re: KR2 or 2S project (hussein nagy) 3. Re: stall/spin accidents (Brant Hollensbe) 4. Re: stall/spin accidents (larry severson) 5. Steve J (IFLYKRS@aol.com) 6. Sonerai driver looking for KR2 info (Chad and Jackie Stenson) 7. Re: Eggenfellner engines (Dan Michaels) 8. Re: Eggenfellner engines (Scott William) 9. Re: Steve J (Scott William) 10. Re: Steve J (billstarrs@peoplepc.com) 11. Re: Steve J (Scott William) 12. Re: Steve J (Robert L. Stone) 13. Re: Eggenfellner engines (Dan Michaels) 14. Joyfull and very SAD day! (Dan Heath) 15. Re: Sonerai driver looking for KR2 info (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:31:10 -0400 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> Steve Jones (EAA Memorial Wall) To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051017.163110.4028.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sometimes unusual health problems pop up at random times. A good pilot and excellent plane O K but, heart or diabetic problems can act swiftly and you buy the farm, Virg On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:30:10 -0500 "Mark Jones" writes: > Steve Jones was an inspiration to the KR Family and I would like to > recognize his dedication to the KR and the Corvair engine by > honoring him with a memorial on the EAA Memorial Wall in Oshkosh, > WI. For those of you unfamiliar with this, here is the link so you > can understand what I am talking about: > http://www.airventure.org/2005/events/memorial_wall.html > A lot of you are new to the KR Family and may not know but I did > this with donations from you for Ken Rand a few years ago. This > gesture was more than appreciated by the Rand family, as I am sure > Steve Jones' family would be honored to know we recognized Steve in > such a manner. It is my understanding that Steve has no wife or > children which is a blessing in itself, therefore, what better way > could we remember Steve than to have his memorial permanently placed > in a location he so much loved. If you would like to contribute to > the Steve Jones EAA Memorial Fund please do so one of two ways: > > Send funds using PayPal www.paypal.com account flykr2s@wi.rr.com . > (My e-mail address is the PayPal account number). > > or Mail to: > > Mark Jones > 615 Wexford Circle > Wales, WI 53183 > > The Memorial Wall dedication service will take place during > AirVenture 2006. > > Any amount over the required amount for the Memorial will be donated > to the KR Gathering Fund. > > Thanks, > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > Visit my web site: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj > Email: flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:02:40 -0700 (PDT) From: hussein nagy Subject: Re: KR> KR2 or 2S project To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051017210240.6595.qmail@web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 James; Can we talk off the net my phone is 904-543-8183 Thanks nagy --- JAMES FERRIS wrote: > I live in Sanford Fl and have a KR-2S project on > gear with instruments > and radio installed, dual controls installed, need > to finish the wing > stubs and bond the upper surface of outboard wings > and build cowl to > finish. May be for sale soon. have medical problem. > Jim > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > nagy hussein __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:15:37 -0500 From: "Brant Hollensbe" Subject: Re: KR> stall/spin accidents To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001401c5d370$af2df630$0702a8c0@bruntson> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Earlier this summer I flew my Cessna into Venice, Flordia to have Sarasota Avionics install a new IFR radio stack. Kirk, the installation manager personally warned me NOT to take off over the water in the morning. It seems it is very easy to lose track of the horizon and confuse the blue water with the blue sky. To prove his point we flew over 2 boats salvaging a sunken Cherokee 3 miles off the runway. In no way am I giving a definitive reason for this accident, but I am making the KRnet aware of local airport peculiarities. I am saddened by such a tragic loss in the KR family. My thoughts and prayers go out to Steve and his family. Brant Hollensbe Des Moines Ia. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:51:23 -0700 From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR> stall/spin accidents To: KRnet Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20051017164856.024e54c0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:15 PM 10/17/2005 -0500, you wrote: >Earlier this summer I flew my Cessna into Venice, Flordia to have >Sarasota Avionics install a new IFR radio stack. Kirk, the >installation manager personally warned me NOT to take off over the >water in the morning. It seems it is very easy to lose track of the >horizon and confuse the blue water with the blue sky. To prove his >point we flew over 2 boats salvaging a sunken Cherokee 3 miles off the >runway. This can easily be avoided with access to any of: artificial horizon turn and bank indicator turn rate indicator. VFR only is no reason to not have one of those items, as the above shows. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:52:13 EDT From: IFLYKRS@aol.com Subject: KR> Steve J To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Heres to Steve and all we learned from him. He will be missed especially among the KR community. Flying like all of life can be dangerous and he willingly accepted those risks. We need to remember that and always strive to lessen those risks where possible. For those who dont know - Spins are NOT recommended in the KR. Being as short as they are it makes recovering difficult or impossible. The 2S does recover better but still not recommended - watch your airspeeds and angles of attack fellows. Flying over water is also NOT recommended unless you have had instrument training and are equipped with an attitude indicator. This applies to flying at night as well. The days we held the Gathering are proof to that fact that visibility during the day in haze is like flying through mushroom soup. Unless you are prepared and proficient - stay on the ground or plan a safer course of action. I flew over the water for about 1 minute a few months ago and can attest that at 3500 feet as I passed the coast line the horizon dissappeared and I was looking at a blank blue white haze. I did a slow 180 and saw land immediately and was okay but I will NOT attemp ANY overwater flying until I have an artificial horizon and a backup. Fly smart and you will fly long, Lord willing. God does have his plans for our lives and I know that we fullfil them whether we want to accnowledge Him or not. I hope the Steve finds grace with God and that we shall see him again. Godspeed Steve. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:02:00 -0500 From: Chad and Jackie Stenson Subject: KR> Sonerai driver looking for KR2 info To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <43543B78.4090802@ameritech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hello all. I'm interested in KR2 information. I'm a small guy (5'9" 135 pounds) and would like to find a realistic 2 place airplane. I really like the look of the KR2 (standard model, not the stretch) and the fact that it can be build simple and light. I don't have a whole lot of questions yet as I really don't know what to ask yet. I'm looking for a KR2 project in just about any stage of completion, but I would like to buy a complete "kit" if there is such a thing. What are some things to look for in a partially build KR2? Are there common builder mistakes that adversely affect the aircraft performance? Can the KR2 handle simple aerobatics like loops and rolls safely? I'm currently flying a Sonerai IILS with a highly modified VW engine. I have good performance out of it, but I don't really care for the rear seat solo flying. My Sonerai is a pleasure to fly otherwise, very responsive but easy to fly. I cruise in the 160mph TAS range and would like similar or better speed. Anyway, I'm looking for opinions here. What to stay away from, what to look for, overall impressions of building and flying a basically stock airframe KR2. Are there insurance issues with the KR2? Thanks in advance. Chad Sheboygan, WI Sonerai IILS ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:05:10 -0500 From: "Dan Michaels" Subject: Re: KR> Eggenfellner engines To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006501c5d377$9ba41d40$fdedfea9@N32394> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original The newest Subaru engine that they are using is an aircraft engine, it was designed for this purpose the plane just did not take off. They then put it in a car. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott William" To: ; "KRnet" Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:23 AM Subject: Re: KR> Eggenfellner engines > Can I simplify this? > > Auto engines are engineered to spend 80% of thier life > at 20% throttle. > > > Airplane engines are engineered to spend 80% of thier > life at 85% throttle. > > > See the difference? > > Now, some auto engines have inherent design > charachteristics that bode them well in airplanes. The Corvair is one > that is superb. As mentioned below, the 2100 VW with a good forged > steel crank is a good choice, as is the V6 GM motor. > > As for all the others.....look how they perform in > boats. They don't last long because of the large power requirements on > them. Hence, you'll never see a two bolt main Chevy 350 in a boat. Or > a Subaru, for that matter. > > > Scott > > --- Colin Rainey > wrote: > >> Bob Lester at one time ran a Subaru engine before >> changing over to a Corvair. Problems with the >> crankshafts due to the high rpms necessary to >> produce enough power. Read the Auto Mathbook for >> some numbers of projected life expectancy when >> engines are subjected to higher and higher rpms. >> The Chevy 350 is 3.48 inches in stroke and will >> reach a piston speed that at 6500 rpms will stress >> the crank 4 times what it is at 5500 rpms per the >> author of the book. Yet by de-stroking that same >> engine as in the Indy cars, it can be revved to >> 11,500 and reach the same piston speeds as 6000 >> rpms, bringing the same stress to the crank. You >> must do the same things to your chosen engine, OR >> use an engine that develops more HP than you need, >> so that your rpms can be maintained at a reasonable >> level for longevity. The chosen engine needs to >> have a broad power band where torque is good where >> you plan to cruise. Peak Hp does not matter if you >> cannot stay there for long durations. Remember about takeoffs, climbs >> while in cruise flight. etc... >> >> With the complexity with running a liquid cooled >> auto engine added to an already complex task of >> setting up an engine and then matching a prop to it, >> the idea of getting reliable information concerning >> PSRUs and prop matches is nothing short of daunting. >> The Subarus are reputed to produce X amount of HP >> but I was not impressed with their presentation nor information, or >> lack there of at Sun n Fun, from the Eggenfellner group. They seemed >> full of hipe but would not talk real world knowledge of their >> products. Like REAL hours of use instead of >> projected TBO. Their full rated HP falls WAY off >> when throttled back for economy cruise. For all the >> added extras in complexity and weight, you are >> better off with a good 2180 VW or Corvair 2.7L. The >> three best auto engines I have researched that are >> successful conversions, being used extensively, with >> LOTS of information available are: 1) the VW 2180; >> 2) the Corvair 2.7L ; 3) the 4.3V6 GM. By far these >> engines have way over the numbers of flying >> conversions that stay in the planes and the owners >> express satisfaction with their performance. The >> others have smaller numbers, and have short TBOs >> like the 2 cycle Rotax family. >> >> IMHO I would recommend for our birds, stick with the >> proven power plants and you will fly sooner, be >> happier, spend less money, and perform better than >> these other fancy boat anchors. (Ok maybe not boat >> anchor, but definitely tie down anchors ). >> >> >> Colin Rainey >> brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net >> EarthLink Revolves Around You. >> _______________________________________ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/129 - Release Date: > 10/11/2005 > > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:37:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott William Subject: Re: KR> Eggenfellner engines To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051018003703.94382.qmail@web31514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dan: There's a reason Eggenfellner calls them "conversions". They weren't designed to fly....now or ever. Scott --- Dan Michaels wrote: > The newest Subaru engine that they are using is an > aircraft engine, it was > designed for this purpose the plane just did not > take off. They then put it > in a car. > > Dan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott William" > To: ; "KRnet" > > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:23 AM > Subject: Re: KR> Eggenfellner engines > > > > Can I simplify this? > > > > Auto engines are engineered to spend 80% of thier > life > > at 20% throttle. > > > > > > Airplane engines are engineered to spend 80% of > thier > > life at 85% throttle. > > > > > > See the difference? > > > > Now, some auto engines have inherent design charachteristics that > > bode them well in airplanes. > The > > Corvair is one that is superb. As mentioned below, > the > > 2100 VW with a good forged steel crank is a good > > choice, as is the V6 GM motor. > > > > As for all the others.....look how they perform in > > boats. They don't last long because of the large > power > > requirements on them. Hence, you'll never see a > two > > bolt main Chevy 350 in a boat. Or a Subaru, for > that > > matter. > > > > > > Scott > > > > --- Colin Rainey > > wrote: > > > >> Bob Lester at one time ran a Subaru engine before > >> changing over to a Corvair. Problems with the > >> crankshafts due to the high rpms necessary to > >> produce enough power. Read the Auto Mathbook for > >> some numbers of projected life expectancy when > >> engines are subjected to higher and higher rpms. > >> The Chevy 350 is 3.48 inches in stroke and will > >> reach a piston speed that at 6500 rpms will > stress > >> the crank 4 times what it is at 5500 rpms per the > >> author of the book. Yet by de-stroking that same > >> engine as in the Indy cars, it can be revved to > >> 11,500 and reach the same piston speeds as 6000 > >> rpms, bringing the same stress to the crank. You > >> must do the same things to your chosen engine, OR > >> use an engine that develops more HP than you > need, > >> so that your rpms can be maintained at a > reasonable > >> level for longevity. The chosen engine needs to > >> have a broad power band where torque is good > where > >> you plan to cruise. Peak Hp does not matter if > you > >> cannot stay there for long durations. Remember > about > >> takeoffs, climbs while in cruise flight. etc... > >> > >> With the complexity with running a liquid cooled > >> auto engine added to an already complex task of > >> setting up an engine and then matching a prop to > it, > >> the idea of getting reliable information > concerning > >> PSRUs and prop matches is nothing short of > daunting. > >> The Subarus are reputed to produce X amount of > HP > >> but I was not impressed with their presentation > nor > >> information, or lack there of at Sun n Fun, from > the > >> Eggenfellner group. They seemed full of hipe but > >> would not talk real world knowledge of their > >> products. Like REAL hours of use instead of > >> projected TBO. Their full rated HP falls WAY off > >> when throttled back for economy cruise. For all > the > >> added extras in complexity and weight, you are > >> better off with a good 2180 VW or Corvair 2.7L. > The > >> three best auto engines I have researched that > are > >> successful conversions, being used extensively, > with > >> LOTS of information available are: 1) the VW > 2180; > >> 2) the Corvair 2.7L ; 3) the 4.3V6 GM. By far > these > >> engines have way over the numbers of flying > >> conversions that stay in the planes and the > owners > >> express satisfaction with their performance. The > >> others have smaller numbers, and have short TBOs > >> like the 2 cycle Rotax family. > >> > >> IMHO I would recommend for our birds, stick with > the > >> proven power plants and you will fly sooner, be > >> happier, spend less money, and perform better > than > >> these other fancy boat anchors. (Ok maybe not > boat > >> anchor, but definitely tie down anchors ). > >> > >> > >> Colin Rainey > >> brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net > >> EarthLink Revolves Around You. > >> _______________________________________ > >> Search the KRnet Archives at > >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > >> please see other KRnet info at > >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/129 - > Release Date: > > 10/11/2005 > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:41:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott William Subject: Re: KR> Steve J To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051018004118.87449.qmail@web31511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 He's in heaven, building a carbon-carbon leading edge supersonic two seater that burns 3gph, weighs 400lbs and has a gross weight of 1500lbs, with room for two, luggage, the dog, and a case of brewskis, and he id doing it all for $10,000 One day we will fly it together. Only he'll have the nerve to keep his eyes open. Godspeed dude....we'll meet one day. Scott --- IFLYKRS@aol.com wrote: > Heres to Steve and all we learned from him. He will > be missed especially > among the KR community. Flying like all of life can > be dangerous and he > willingly accepted those risks. We need to remember > that and always strive to > lessen those risks where possible. > For those who dont know - Spins are NOT > recommended in the KR. Being as > short as they are it makes recovering difficult or > impossible. The 2S does > recover better but still not recommended - watch > your airspeeds and angles of > attack fellows. Flying over water is also NOT > recommended unless you have > had instrument training and are equipped with an > attitude indicator. This > applies to flying at night as well. The days we > held the Gathering are proof to > that fact that visibility during the day in haze is > like flying through > mushroom soup. Unless you are prepared and > proficient - stay on the ground or > plan a safer course of action. I flew over the > water for about 1 minute a few > months ago and can attest that at 3500 feet as I > passed the coast line the > horizon dissappeared and I was looking at a blank > blue white haze. I did a > slow 180 and saw land immediately and was okay but > I will NOT attemp ANY > overwater flying until I have an artificial horizon > and a backup. Fly smart and you > will fly long, Lord willing. > God does have his plans for our lives and I know > that we fullfil them > whether we want to accnowledge Him or not. I hope > the Steve finds grace with > God and that we shall see him again. > Godspeed Steve. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:46:43 -0600 From: Subject: Re: KR> Steve J To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00f701c5d375$08ad80f0$87e9f004@Bill> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" One accident does not mean you should not fly over water unless you have an artifical horrizon . I'v flown from LA to Catalina ( 22miles remember) many times in a Taylor Craft or C 150 with no problems. Each situation is different. Bill Starrs ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 5:52 PM Subject: KR> Steve J Heres to Steve and all we learned from him. He will be missed especially among the KR community. Flying like all of life can be dangerous and he willingly accepted those risks. We need to remember that and always strive to lessen those risks where possible. For those who dont know - Spins are NOT recommended in the KR. Being as short as they are it makes recovering difficult or impossible. The 2S does recover better but still not recommended - watch your airspeeds and angles of attack fellows. Flying over water is also NOT recommended unless you have had instrument training and are equipped with an attitude indicator. This applies to flying at night as well. The days we held the Gathering are proof to that fact that visibility during the day in haze is like flying through mushroom soup. Unless you are prepared and proficient - stay on the ground or plan a safer course of action. I flew over the water for about 1 minute a few months ago and can attest that at 3500 feet as I passed the coast line the horizon dissappeared and I was looking at a blank blue white haze. I did a slow 180 and saw land immediately and was okay but I will NOT attemp ANY overwater flying until I have an artificial horizon and a backup. Fly smart and you will fly long, Lord willing. God does have his plans for our lives and I know that we fullfil them whether we want to accnowledge Him or not. I hope the Steve finds grace with God and that we shall see him again. Godspeed Steve. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 17:53:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott William Subject: Re: KR> Steve J To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051018005312.17867.qmail@web31503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I've taken off over water at Cedar key, and flown out over the gulf many times....I keep looking out my side windows and use my wingtips for a reference. It works for me. But I will attest to this...flying west out to the gulf, the horizon WILL disappear in the morning. Nights are hazardous also. But....we can only assume this is what happened to Steve. Control surface failure is also a possibility, as is medical conditions, ect. We must wait for the investiagtion results....and in the meantime remember all he contributed. Scott --- billstarrs@peoplepc.com wrote: > One accident does not mean you should not fly over > water unless you have an artifical horrizon . I'v > flown from LA to Catalina ( > 22miles remember) many times in a Taylor Craft or C > 150 with no problems. Each situation is different. > Bill Starrs > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 5:52 PM > Subject: KR> Steve J > > > Heres to Steve and all we learned from him. He will > be missed especially > among the KR community. Flying like all of life can > be dangerous and he > willingly accepted those risks. We need to remember > that and always strive to > lessen those risks where possible. > For those who dont know - Spins are NOT > recommended in the KR. Being as > short as they are it makes recovering difficult or > impossible. The 2S does > recover better but still not recommended - watch > your airspeeds and angles of > attack fellows. Flying over water is also NOT > recommended unless you have > had instrument training and are equipped with an > attitude indicator. This > applies to flying at night as well. The days we > held the Gathering are proof to > that fact that visibility during the day in haze is > like flying through > mushroom soup. Unless you are prepared and > proficient - stay on the ground or > plan a safer course of action. I flew over the > water for about 1 minute a few > months ago and can attest that at 3500 feet as I > passed the coast line the > horizon dissappeared and I was looking at a blank > blue white haze. I did a > slow 180 and saw land immediately and was okay but > I will NOT attemp ANY > overwater flying until I have an artificial horizon > and a backup. Fly smart and you > will fly long, Lord willing. > God does have his plans for our lives and I know > that we fullfil them > whether we want to accnowledge Him or not. I hope > the Steve finds grace with > God and that we shall see him again. > Godspeed Steve. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:14:54 -0500 From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Steve J To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004001c5d389$bb1fa240$5d817646@yourat5qgaac3z> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Netters, I to have flown to Catalina from Medowlark Field, Huntington beach several times and the only thing I can say about flying over the sea or gulf is, if possible get high enough and know your sink rate so if you have an engine quite you can glide to land. None of us are any match for a shark and there are sharks in both the gulf and waters off the California coast. After retirement from the USAF, I spent 21 years in Huntington Beach,California. As a matter of fact, I was a good friend of the late Ken Rand who developed the KR aircraft and have a picture of he and I in my front room of my home in Huntington Beach having a drink and talking, what else airplanes of course. If any of you guys want to see what Ken Rand looked like, just let me know and I will send a copy of that picture. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:46 PM Subject: Re: KR> Steve J > One accident does not mean you should not fly over water unless you have > an artifical horrizon . I'v flown from LA to Catalina ( > 22miles remember) many times in a Taylor Craft or C 150 with no problems. > Each situation is different. Bill Starrs > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 5:52 PM > Subject: KR> Steve J > > > Heres to Steve and all we learned from him. He will be missed especially > among the KR community. Flying like all of life can be dangerous and he > willingly accepted those risks. We need to remember that and always > strive to > lessen those risks where possible. > For those who dont know - Spins are NOT recommended in the KR. Being > as > short as they are it makes recovering difficult or impossible. The 2S > does > recover better but still not recommended - watch your airspeeds and > angles of > attack fellows. Flying over water is also NOT recommended unless you > have > had instrument training and are equipped with an attitude indicator. > This > applies to flying at night as well. The days we held the Gathering are > proof to > that fact that visibility during the day in haze is like flying through > mushroom soup. Unless you are prepared and proficient - stay on the > ground or > plan a safer course of action. I flew over the water for about 1 minute > a few > months ago and can attest that at 3500 feet as I passed the coast line > the > horizon dissappeared and I was looking at a blank blue white haze. I did > a > slow 180 and saw land immediately and was okay but I will NOT attemp ANY > overwater flying until I have an artificial horizon and a backup. Fly > smart and you > will fly long, Lord willing. > God does have his plans for our lives and I know that we fullfil them > whether we want to accnowledge Him or not. I hope the Steve finds grace > with > God and that we shall see him again. > Godspeed Steve. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:54:37 -0500 From: "Dan Michaels" Subject: Re: KR> Eggenfellner engines To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00a601c5d386$e594cda0$fdedfea9@N32394> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I have researched this, and the 6 cylinder subaru is an horozontally opposed engine same as a Lycoming. It was designed by subaru for an aircraft. The aircraft did not take off financially so they addapted the engine for a car. Eggenfellner then converted it to an aircraft engine. This is not the same as the 4 cylinder Subaru engine that they used to use. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott William" To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 7:37 PM Subject: Re: KR> Eggenfellner engines > Dan: > There's a reason Eggenfellner calls them > "conversions". They weren't designed to fly....now or > ever. > > Scott > > --- Dan Michaels wrote: > >> The newest Subaru engine that they are using is an >> aircraft engine, it was >> designed for this purpose the plane just did not >> take off. They then put it >> in a car. >> >> Dan >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott William" >> To: ; "KRnet" >> >> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:23 AM >> Subject: Re: KR> Eggenfellner engines >> >> >> > Can I simplify this? >> > >> > Auto engines are engineered to spend 80% of thier >> life >> > at 20% throttle. >> > >> > >> > Airplane engines are engineered to spend 80% of >> thier >> > life at 85% throttle. >> > >> > >> > See the difference? >> > >> > Now, some auto engines have inherent design >> > charachteristics that bode them well in airplanes. >> The >> > Corvair is one that is superb. As mentioned below, >> the >> > 2100 VW with a good forged steel crank is a good >> > choice, as is the V6 GM motor. >> > >> > As for all the others.....look how they perform in >> > boats. They don't last long because of the large >> power >> > requirements on them. Hence, you'll never see a >> two >> > bolt main Chevy 350 in a boat. Or a Subaru, for >> that >> > matter. >> > >> > >> > Scott >> > >> > --- Colin Rainey >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Bob Lester at one time ran a Subaru engine before >> >> changing over to a Corvair. Problems with the >> >> crankshafts due to the high rpms necessary to >> >> produce enough power. Read the Auto Mathbook for >> >> some numbers of projected life expectancy when >> >> engines are subjected to higher and higher rpms. >> >> The Chevy 350 is 3.48 inches in stroke and will >> >> reach a piston speed that at 6500 rpms will >> stress >> >> the crank 4 times what it is at 5500 rpms per the >> >> author of the book. Yet by de-stroking that same >> >> engine as in the Indy cars, it can be revved to >> >> 11,500 and reach the same piston speeds as 6000 >> >> rpms, bringing the same stress to the crank. You >> >> must do the same things to your chosen engine, OR >> >> use an engine that develops more HP than you >> need, >> >> so that your rpms can be maintained at a >> reasonable >> >> level for longevity. The chosen engine needs to >> >> have a broad power band where torque is good >> where >> >> you plan to cruise. Peak Hp does not matter if >> you >> >> cannot stay there for long durations. Remember >> about >> >> takeoffs, climbs while in cruise flight. etc... >> >> >> >> With the complexity with running a liquid cooled >> >> auto engine added to an already complex task of >> >> setting up an engine and then matching a prop to >> it, >> >> the idea of getting reliable information >> concerning >> >> PSRUs and prop matches is nothing short of >> daunting. >> >> The Subarus are reputed to produce X amount of >> HP >> >> but I was not impressed with their presentation >> nor >> >> information, or lack there of at Sun n Fun, from >> the >> >> Eggenfellner group. They seemed full of hipe but >> >> would not talk real world knowledge of their >> >> products. Like REAL hours of use instead of >> >> projected TBO. Their full rated HP falls WAY off >> >> when throttled back for economy cruise. For all >> the >> >> added extras in complexity and weight, you are >> >> better off with a good 2180 VW or Corvair 2.7L. >> The >> >> three best auto engines I have researched that >> are >> >> successful conversions, being used extensively, >> with >> >> LOTS of information available are: 1) the VW >> 2180; >> >> 2) the Corvair 2.7L ; 3) the 4.3V6 GM. By far >> these >> >> engines have way over the numbers of flying >> >> conversions that stay in the planes and the >> owners >> >> express satisfaction with their performance. The >> >> others have smaller numbers, and have short TBOs >> >> like the 2 cycle Rotax family. >> >> >> >> IMHO I would recommend for our birds, stick with >> the >> >> proven power plants and you will fly sooner, be >> >> happier, spend less money, and perform better >> than >> >> these other fancy boat anchors. (Ok maybe not >> boat >> >> anchor, but definitely tie down anchors ). >> >> >> >> >> >> Colin Rainey >> >> brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net >> >> EarthLink Revolves Around You. >> >> _______________________________________ >> >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to >> >> KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> >> please see other KRnet info at >> >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > __________________________________ >> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >> > http://mail.yahoo.com >> > >> > _______________________________________ >> > Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to >> KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> > please see other KRnet info at >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > No virus found in this incoming message. >> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/129 - >> Release Date: >> > 10/11/2005 >> > >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to >> KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at >> http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > > > > > __________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/129 - Release Date: > 10/11/2005 > > ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 22:38:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Joyfull and very SAD day! To: Message-ID: <4354602D.000003.01084@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I took the day off to move the plane to the airport and was sitting here at the computer looking out the window, waiting for the truck to arrive. Then the terribly sad news came up and I was deeply saddened. I remember putting some early pictures of Steve's plane, before the modifications, on our site. I met him for the first time at the gathering and admired him and his plane He became an instant friend and I along with all of you will miss him. So then the truck did show up and I promised pics at 11, so here they are. http://krbuilder.org/Airport/index.html Steve, when I am flying this new plane, I will think of you often. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is over. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:03:39 -0400 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> Sonerai driver looking for KR2 info To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051017.230400.3320.2.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii get the info pack from RR and a Wicks catalog, Virg On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 19:02:00 -0500 Chad and Jackie Stenson writes: > Hello all. I'm interested in KR2 information. I'm a small guy (5'9" > > 135 pounds) and would like to find a realistic 2 place airplane. I > > really like the look of the KR2 (standard model, not the stretch) > and > the fact that it can be build simple and light. I don't have a > whole > lot of questions yet as I really don't know what to ask yet. I'm > looking for a KR2 project in just about any stage of completion, but > I > would like to buy a complete "kit" if there is such a thing. What > are > some things to look for in a partially build KR2? Are there common > > builder mistakes that adversely affect the aircraft performance? > Can > the KR2 handle simple aerobatics like loops and rolls safely? > > I'm currently flying a Sonerai IILS with a highly modified VW > engine. I > have good performance out of it, but I don't really care for the > rear > seat solo flying. My Sonerai is a pleasure to fly otherwise, very > responsive but easy to fly. I cruise in the 160mph TAS range and > would > like similar or better speed. > > Anyway, I'm looking for opinions here. What to stay away from, what > to > look for, overall impressions of building and flying a basically > stock > airframe KR2. Are there insurance issues with the KR2? > > Thanks in advance. > > Chad > Sheboygan, WI > Sonerai IILS > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 413 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================