From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 435 Date: 10/30/2005 9:00:22 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: "project" update (Joachim Saupe) 2. Re: "project" update (Scott William) 3. RE: "project" update (Hauck, John MAJ HHC-37th TRANS) 4. Re: WAF's (patrusso) 5. RE: WAF's (Hauck, John MAJ HHC-37th TRANS) 6. Re: Questions for Joe Horton (Joseph H. Horton) 7. Re: Questions for Joe Horton (flesner) 8. Re: Questions for Joe Horton (Joseph H. Horton) 9. Re: WAF's (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 10. Re: WAF's (patrusso) 11. RE: WAF's (Hauck, John MAJ HHC-37th TRANS) 12. Re: "project" update (larry severson) 13. Re: Wood replacing (patrusso) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 02:33:04 -0600 From: "Joachim Saupe" Subject: RE: KR> "project" update To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <410-22005100308334750@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Great Mark! > [Original Message] > From: Mark Langford > To: KRnet > Date: 10/29/2005 7:38:37 PM > Subject: KR> "project" update > > NetHeads, > > I guess I'm about to answer my own question. I'm sure there are lots > of alternatives as to the best hinge pin lubricant, but I suspect that > good old ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 02:06:22 -0800 (PST) From: Scott William Subject: Re: KR> "project" update To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051030100622.91814.qmail@web31510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 --- Mark Langford wrote: > Any > recommendations on a > small digital tach? Just a suggestion....back in the eighties, the racing world started using digital gauges. WHen racers complained they couldn't read them, a study was commissioned by a university (I forget which one). It found that people could read the gauges, but just weren't able to interpret them as quickly as an analog gauge. If you look at any race car now, you'll almost always see analog. Scott __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 13:57:10 +0300 From: "Hauck, John MAJ HHC-37th TRANS" Subject: RE: KR> "project" update To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Maybe digital is for the "generation after next" but for me, I wear an analog watch because my minds' eye does not recon in digital. I like gages with white faces and black lettering...makes the cockpit brighter. -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Scott William Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 1:06 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> "project" update --- Mark Langford wrote: > Any > recommendations on a > small digital tach? Just a suggestion....back in the eighties, the racing world started using digital gauges. WHen racers complained they couldn't read them, a study was commissioned by a university (I forget which one). It found that people could read the gauges, but just weren't able to interpret them as quickly as an analog gauge. If you look at any race car now, you'll almost always see analog. Scott __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 06:06:13 -0500 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> WAF's To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003501c5dd41$f1657ca0$44a672d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Ron Yes, yes , yes. Brush on a light coat of spar varnish on that spar area. Next day or several hours later, sand lightly and brush on a second coat and attach the WAFs' dipping each bolt in the can of spar varnish before sliding into place. I assume the WAFs have been primed and painted. You may even want to wax them... Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Smith" To: Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 5:02 PM Subject: KR> WAF's >I am ready to install my WAF. Should I do anything to seal the wood >under >the WAF's? > > > Ron Smith > Kr2ssxl > Cypress Ca U.S.A. > mercedesmann@yahoo.com http://ronsmith.myphotoalbum.com/albums.php > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 14:30:07 +0300 From: "Hauck, John MAJ HHC-37th TRANS" Subject: RE: KR> WAF's To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Pat: I have always had this question: when using spar varnish, is it better to cut the first application with paint thinner, so the first coat will sink deeper into the wood? I have always done this, and then the next day put a full coat on, but have never owned the wood long enough to figure out if this was working out. Have you any thought on that? John -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of patrusso Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 2:06 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> WAF's Ron Yes, yes , yes. Brush on a light coat of spar varnish on that spar area. Next day or several hours later, sand lightly and brush on a second coat and attach the WAFs' dipping each bolt in the can of spar varnish before sliding into place. I assume the WAFs have been primed and painted. You may even want to wax them... Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Smith" To: Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 5:02 PM Subject: KR> WAF's >I am ready to install my WAF. Should I do anything to seal the wood under >the WAF's? > > > Ron Smith > Kr2ssxl > Cypress Ca U.S.A. > mercedesmann@yahoo.com http://ronsmith.myphotoalbum.com/albums.php > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 06:54:11 -0500 From: "Joseph H. Horton" Subject: Re: KR> Questions for Joe Horton To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051030.071352.4000.1.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Joe, how long is your fuselage? Is it standard KR2S length? Did you > use the "new airfoil" and the 1 degree incidence? If so, what is the > incidence of your HS? I'm getting close to building my HS, and am > wondering how I will set it. Someone, I think Mark L. said a piece > of 3/32 ply under the aft HS spar should be perfect. I was wondering > what you did, and how is the plane with regard to trim, if you > noticed? > > Congratulations again on your remarkable achievement. Ron and all, My 2S fuselage is an 1 1/2 inch longer than the plans in the last bay simply because I made a mistake and after many phone calls many years ago I left it alone. I built the new airfoil with the stock spars. I think that the incidence was as recommended. The horizontal stab. was built and mounted when I discovered the new airfoil work. I was able to get the horizontal stab. incidence adjusted but not to the perfect number of neg. .75 deg. Again without looking it up right now mine is around neg .7 deg ad also is not perfect from side to side. I think that the other side is neg. .5 deg. Other wise the horizontal stab is per plans for size shape and trim tab. The trim tab is extremely sensitive. I can barely touch it and the plane changes pitch instantly. I did check the position after landing yesterday and it was not even a 1/4 " out of plane with the elevator. I have a lever on the cockpit side wall and I think that I am going to change the wire location on the lever to reduce the throw to the trim tab. As far as the set up of wings and tail as a whole the plane is plenty stable for me. From all that has been propagated through the years I expected much more pitch sensitivity. Don't get me wrong it is very quick in pitch response but I personally don't feel that it is anywhere near uncontrollable. The best advice that I had was for gentle unaggressive use of the stick with a loose grip. I have not had much cruise work yet but I feel like I am flying nose high. I have no reason to think that it is nose high it just maybe how I sit in the cockpit and it being a new plane that I never got used to before for the view to the horizon. If I was building all new right now I would use all the new airfoils on all the surfaces. Having said that I don't see anything that will make me rebuild my tail. Keep working everyone. There is a true joy waiting for you. Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA. joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 07:01:21 -0600 From: "flesner" Subject: Re: KR> Questions for Joe Horton To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001b01c5dd52$074e35b0$2f01a8c0@LARRYFLESNER> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > I have not had much cruise work yet but I feel like I am > flying nose high. I have no reason to think that it is nose high it > just maybe how I sit in the cockpit and it being a new plane that I > never got used to before for the view to the horizon. Joe Horton, +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Congratulations Joe and welcome to the world of KR pilots! As I recall, most of you limited time has been in the pattern at lower airspeeds. You probably are flying a bit nose high. If you have any room between your head and the canopy you could jack yourself up a bit. Things will look different at 150 MPH !!!! I love the cool air we're getting right now. It was a bit bumpy but I got a short burst at 175 mph indicated , straight and level, full throttle cruise yesterday! If I didn't have to eat, sleep, and work, I probably wouldn't bother coming home from the airport !!!! :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 08:43:57 -0500 From: "Joseph H. Horton" Subject: Re: KR> Questions for Joe Horton To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051030.084357.4000.2.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > As I recall, most of you limited time has been in the pattern at > lower > airspeeds. You probably are flying a bit nose high. If you have > any > room between your head and the canopy you could jack yourself > up a bit. Things will look different at 150 MPH !!!! > > I love the cool air we're getting right now. It was a bit bumpy but > I > got a short burst at 175 mph indicated , straight and level, full > throttle > cruise yesterday! If I didn't have to eat, sleep, and work, I > probably > wouldn't bother coming home from the airport !!!! :-) Larry, I can not raise up any, I'm already tighter to the canopy than I thought I would be. Yes the fastest I have been is 140 mph only briefly and I was some where around 110 when I noted the view to the horizon. So i may have everything OK. Time will tell. Just not today wind is 15 to 20 with some gusts. Now that staying at the airport thought may have merit. Let me see-- I think I could get the pop up camper in the hanger too. Then I would have cooking, heat, shower, bed, potty. Man this is sounding pretty good. Oh yea less than a mile from work too. ;-) Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA. joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:18:43 -0500 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> WAF's To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051030.093022.3368.3.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Put epoxy in the holes on assembly to seal the wood and assemble while epoxy is wet. Takes up bolt slack, Some,Virg On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 15:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Ron Smith writes: > I am ready to install my WAF. Should I do anything to seal the wood > under the WAF's? > > > Ron Smith > Kr2ssxl > Cypress Ca U.S.A. > mercedesmann@yahoo.com http://ronsmith.myphotoalbum.com/albums.php > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 12:21:25 -0500 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> WAF's To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003a01c5dd76$5bd851f0$eba672d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original John Right on. Been doing this for decades to get that solid deep finish on furniture. On soft wood I generally do a 50-50 thinning for thr first coat, a 25% cut on the second coat and then my full strenght coats atop this. On hardwoods, a 50-50 coat then move directly to full strenght. For airplane work, I would keep it light and easy,...a 25% cut on first coat. This will also aid in drying quicker,.... then a full coat. This is also how I finish the sides and backs of my musical instruments. The tops of musical instruments are always spruce because it is a very tonal wood and being very strong for its weight, but thin coats penetrating the spruce dampens somewhat the tonal properties, hence a reduction in brillance of sound. I have both a furniture and instrument shop. On furniture always thin, on spruce musical instrument tops, do not thin. Some of my clients have been with me for 30 years and I do get a chance to see my furniture and instruments age. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hauck, John MAJ HHC-37th TRANS" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 6:30 AM Subject: RE: KR> WAF's > Pat: > > I have always had this question: when using spar varnish, is it better > to cut the first application with paint thinner, so the first coat > will sink deeper into the wood? I have always done this, and then the > next day put a full coat on, but have never owned the wood long enough > to figure out if this was working out. Have you any thought on that? > > John > > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 20:45:08 +0300 From: "Hauck, John MAJ HHC-37th TRANS" Subject: RE: KR> WAF's To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks Pat. By the way, I am stationed in Kuwait, and have not had a chance to select an aircraft to build yet. I am interested in the KR2S, but have not made a decision yet. One of my criteria is for the a/c to be portable, so I do not have to keep it at the airport. I had an a/c before, and it always killed me to leave it outside in the elements, and then have to be gone so long when working on it. Have you any knowledge of a folding wing option for the KR-2? John -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of patrusso Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 8:21 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> WAF's John Right on. Been doing this for decades to get that solid deep finish on furniture. On soft wood I generally do a 50-50 thinning for thr first coat, a 25% cut on the second coat and then my full strenght coats atop this. On hardwoods, a 50-50 coat then move directly to full strenght. For airplane work, I would keep it light and easy,...a 25% cut on first coat. This will also aid in drying quicker,.... then a full coat. This is also how I finish the sides and backs of my musical instruments. The tops of musical instruments are always spruce because it is a very tonal wood and being very strong for its weight, but thin coats penetrating the spruce dampens somewhat the tonal properties, hence a reduction in brillance of sound. I have both a furniture and instrument shop. On furniture always thin, on spruce musical instrument tops, do not thin. Some of my clients have been with me for 30 years and I do get a chance to see my furniture and instruments age. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hauck, John MAJ HHC-37th TRANS" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 6:30 AM Subject: RE: KR> WAF's > Pat: > > I have always had this question: when using spar varnish, is it better > to cut the first application with paint thinner, so the first coat will > sink deeper into the wood? I have always done this, and then the next > day put a full coat on, but have never owned the wood long enough to > figure out if this was working out. Have you any thought on that? > > John > > _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:09:51 -0800 From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR> "project" update To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20051030100408.037b9538@socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > It >found that people could read the gauges, but just >weren't able to interpret them as quickly as an analog >gauge. We are analog. We see angular differences, even out of the corner of our eyes. Digital (and tape) displays need to be read which requires looking directly at the gage. Also, there is the problem of resolution of the digital display. Human Factors studies validate the fact that until the screen reaches the resolution of the printed page, speed of reading, accuracy of data acquisition, and retention of data goes down directly with the drop of resolution. With an analog gage (needle rotating around a circular display), the resolution of the screen has little impact. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:14:55 -0500 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> Wood replacing To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001401c5dd9f$5bfb1f90$3da772d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Cris Fir, pine and mahogany will work just fine in place of spruce on most of the construction. I personally used all three of these woods on different aircraft except the main spar. On the main spar I used good quality straight grained spruce on my first two KR's, on the third KR, I used locally grown clear spruce with slightly uneven grain but compensated for this by laminating the spruce to offset the grain runout. On a forth aircraft (still in progress), I am using mahogany for the spars and local spruce for the boat. On the Horizon II that I have just completed, The entire plane is made of clear pine, which is what was provided by the company that provided the plans and materials. This plane is fabric covered, geodectic construction. In summary you can use a variety of wood and the weight penalty is miniscule. I never weighed individual pieces of the aircraft as I felt it was unimportant....I doubt there is a penalty of more than twenty pounds. You have plenty of areas to make up for CG variences like moving the battery to the rear or adding a heavier and more robust tailwheel and spring. On my last KR I did all of these things while moving my type 4 vw engine 3 inches forward to give it a more aesthetic appearence. Type of wood to use comes up very often and our archives are probably full of interesting articles. When I start my forth KR I will use pine thru-out except for the main spar. I have not played with other materials for the main simply because I do not want to get involved with structural testing there. TRUST YOUR GOOD JUDGEMENT Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cris." To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 10:14 AM Subject: KR> Wood replacing > As some of you already know, I still have some months to wait before > starting to build. My first step, after the "zero step" consisting in > preparing the shop, will > be the "boat". > I have some contacts to buy Spruce, here in Italy, but I'm reading lots of > stuff about construction techniques and in one of EAA publications I found > an interesting article about replacing Douglas Fir for Spruce. > > In a few words, accepting a 29% more weight I could gain 26% in > resistence (in general, simply replacing without redesigning the > structure) and this could allow me to avoid big trouble in getting the > wood (also $$$ related!). > > > My questions: > > 1. In your opinion/experience, what is the weight of spruce wood you > guys used building your KR2S? Obviously that 29% should refer to the > wooden part, not to the total weight. > > 2. I'll install a Rotax 912 (80HP), sensibly lighter than usual > installations. Since the weight will increase mainly behind the > firewall, will I face problems with the CG position? > > 3. Some publications report that Douglas Fir is more critical using > Epoxies. > Is that a known issue? > > Thank you so much. > > Cristiano. > > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 435 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================