From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 447 Date: 11/7/2005 11:32:19 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. (Dan Heath) 2. RE: Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. (Steve Bray) 3. 2006 Gathering web page (Larry Flesner) 4. Re: Flight Report (JAMES FERRIS) 5. RE: Parts for Sale (Jim Sellars) 6. Re: RE: KR> Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. (danrh@alltel.net) 7. AS504x wings (pedro@heroic.co.uk) 8. RE: Flight Report (Steve Glover) 9. RE: Loop De Loop (daren@cogdon.freeserve.co.uk) 10. Re: RE: KR> Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. (Steve Bray) 11. TSO'd Instruments (Stephen Teate) 12. Re: AS504x wings (JAMES FERRIS) 13. Re: Flight Report (JAMES FERRIS) 14. RE: Flight Report (Steve Glover) 15. Re: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 445 heavy wing fix (herbertsname@netscape.net) 16. Re: AS504x wings (Mark Langford) 17. Re: heavy wing fix (Mark Langford) 18. Re: AS504x wings (Dennis Mingear) 19. Re: AS504x wings (Matthew Elder) 20. Re: AS504x wings (Dennis Mingear) 21. Re: TSO'd Instruments (Dan Michaels) 22. Re: AS504x wings (Donald Reid) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 05:17:49 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. To: Message-ID: <436F29CD.00000B.00232@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Anyone wanting to see the "Loop" AKA "Flying Friend" video, you can get it from this link or from a link on the home page of KRBuilder.org under presentations from other builders. http://krbuilder.org/FlyingFriend/FlyingFriend.wmv See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 06:09:40 -0600 From: "Steve Bray" Subject: RE: KR> Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thanks Dan It was there all the time? It seems to have stured a lot of intrest, hope everyone likes it as much as I do. Steve Bray Jackson, Tennessee >From: "Dan Heath" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: >Subject: KR> Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. >Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 05:17:49 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) > >Anyone wanting to see the "Loop" AKA "Flying Friend" video, you can get >it from this link or from a link on the home page of KRBuilder.org >under presentations from other builders. > >http://krbuilder.org/FlyingFriend/FlyingFriend.wmv > >See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics >See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering >There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for >building >is OVER. >Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 06:07:22 -0600 From: Larry Flesner Subject: KR> 2006 Gathering web page To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20051107060249.02f301a0@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Netters, Bob Lee has done his usual good job of maintaining / updating the KR Gathering web page. It is now updated for 2006 and ready for business. It will continue to be updated as I pass new info along to Bob as plans are made. I will do my best to keep you advised of any updates. www.krgathering.org THANKS BOB FOR A JOB WELL DONE !!!!!!!!!! Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 08:03:14 -0500 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> Flight Report To: krnet@mylist.net Cc: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051107.080314.400.0.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Steve: Its really none of my business, but why would you use a 63 series airfoil when ther are airfoils out there that will give you 40% more laminar flow to increase you top speed? Sincerely Jim On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 19:38:14 -0800 "Steve Glover" writes: > Oh no, tell us it is not true. > > You are not building one of erector set airplanes, are you? > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > > I'm afraid it is true...however I would never give in to the Dark > Side > of the Erector sets! (sorry Dana) :) The deal is done pending > final > inspection when the buyer comes out from Boston. I learned this > evening > that the intention is, in fact, to take the KR to Boston at some > point > but I will keep it until arrangements can be made for shipping or to > fly > it back. Too bad for me that I will still have access to it for > now. ;) > > > My plan actually is to buy a flying Varieze until my LongEZ is > completed. I'll then sell the Vari to finance the new plane...a > highly > modified KR-1. Richard Shirley and I are collaborating on the new > design and anticipate 240 - 275 MPH cruise. I will document the > construction process in case anyone is interested. The short list of > the > design will be a 63 series airfoil, P-51 style electric retracts, > stretched, widened, glass cockpit with auto pilot for the long trips > and > possibly O2 if I install the turbo for high altitude travel. Stay > tuned. > > > I'll most likely start on the new plane sometime this next year. I > am > hoping to have the L-EZ back in the air by spring or early summer so > I > will be flying one of the EZ's to the Gathering. > > Regards, > > Steve Glover > KR-2 N902G > AJO, Ca > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 09:44:37 -0400 From: "Jim Sellars" Subject: RE: KR> Parts for Sale To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mike: Sell me the vents Jim -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Peg and Mike Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:57 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Parts for Sale Good Evening: I'm cleaning out the garage and I'm selling the KR parts that are no longer applicable to my project. I've swapped over to Corvair power, so the VW motor mount is no longer required. The retracts are gone, so the fairings and the mold for the fairings are available. Additionally, I have a couple of brand new Whisperflo vents that I will part with for half the price Aircraft Spruce charges. The motor mount has never been used, and I'm asking 75.00 for it. The Whisperflo vents and the fairings are both priced at 15.00. Check out the link below for some photos. http://eshare.hpphoto.com/en/home/welcome.asp?JobID={9C53C3C7-3C7F-46CC-ABC5 -E3DD90F1774F} &IDKey=0&isflag=ExternalLink&st=0 In addition to my regular job and building a KR, I run a small side business handling industrial surplus. I just received a shipment of BRAND NEW shop tools and supplies that I will sell to KR builders for a song. Every bit of it is manufactured in the good old USA by names you would recognize like Armstrong, 3M, and Proto. The quality is instantly recognizable; these tools were designed and built to last a lifetime. I have dies, taps, drill bits, files, saw blades, reamers, abrasives, and a ton of other stuff. I've included a few pictures of the accessory sets that I have for sale on the link above. I particularly like the electrical terminal set that incorporates solder with heat shrink tubing. These terminals are tidy, clean, and very solid when applied. If you are interested in the other products I have available, please email me. If you're interested in purchasing anything you see, act quickly as I am moving these as fast as I get them. Buyer pays shipping, but I get a decent deal on shipping, so it isn't too painful. Thanks again for looking! Mike Meyer pmmeyer@swbell.net pmmeyer@swbell.net _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 7:44:38 -0600 From: Subject: Re: RE: KR> Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051107134438.REBY18995.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@[166.102.165.30]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 No, I did not have it. I put it there after you sent it to me. I hope everyone enjoys it. I feel sorry for the dog. From: "Steve Bray" Date: 2005/11/07 Mon AM 06:09:40 CST To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: RE: KR> Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. Thanks Dan It was there all the time? It seems to have stured a lot of intrest, hope everyone likes it as much as I do. Steve Bray Jackson, Tennessee >From: "Dan Heath" >Reply-To: KRnet >To: >Subject: KR> Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. >Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 05:17:49 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) > >Anyone wanting to see the "Loop" AKA "Flying Friend" video, you can get it >from this link or from a link on the home page of KRBuilder.org under >presentations from other builders. > >http://krbuilder.org/FlyingFriend/FlyingFriend.wmv > >See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics >See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering >There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for >building >is OVER. >Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 14:56:59 -0000 (GMT) From: Subject: KR> AS504x wings To: Message-ID: <31345.139.149.1.203.1131375419.squirrel@www.heroic.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, How does the use of AS504* wings affect CG range. The wings having a different profile, presumably have a different centre of lift - my guess from looking at the profiles is that the centre of lift moves aft. So what is the impact on CG and is there a different practical CG range for aircraft with these wings? ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 07:12:34 -0800 From: "Steve Glover" Subject: RE: KR> Flight Report To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <005801c5e3ad$b18d9320$0202a8c0@IntelliSpec> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well, lets see, Richard Shirley uses a 63 series and is one of the fastest KR's out there at 215 MPH on 70 hp. With 110+ hp the new plane should be a screamer all cleaned up. The maneuverability he has is unreal. I amazes me every time we fly together (irritates me actually because I can't do it in mine). I considered a Lancair legacy wing and a few others but when you look at top speed and what you reasonable can do on the slow side for stall and landings, the 63 looked the best for my application. I believe it is also what Mooney uses. Regards, Steve Glover KR-2 N902G AJO, Ca -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of JAMES FERRIS Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:03 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Cc: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR> Flight Report Hi Steve: Its really none of my business, but why would you use a 63 series airfoil when ther are airfoils out there that will give you 40% more laminar flow to increase you top speed? Sincerely Jim On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 19:38:14 -0800 "Steve Glover" writes: > Oh no, tell us it is not true. > > You are not building one of erector set airplanes, are you? > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > > I'm afraid it is true...however I would never give in to the Dark > Side > of the Erector sets! (sorry Dana) :) The deal is done pending > final > inspection when the buyer comes out from Boston. I learned this > evening > that the intention is, in fact, to take the KR to Boston at some > point > but I will keep it until arrangements can be made for shipping or to > fly > it back. Too bad for me that I will still have access to it for > now. ;) > > > My plan actually is to buy a flying Varieze until my LongEZ is > completed. I'll then sell the Vari to finance the new plane...a > highly modified KR-1. Richard Shirley and I are collaborating on the > new design and anticipate 240 - 275 MPH cruise. I will document the > construction process in case anyone is interested. The short list of > the > design will be a 63 series airfoil, P-51 style electric retracts, > stretched, widened, glass cockpit with auto pilot for the long trips > and > possibly O2 if I install the turbo for high altitude travel. Stay > tuned. > > > I'll most likely start on the new plane sometime this next year. I > am > hoping to have the L-EZ back in the air by spring or early summer so > I > will be flying one of the EZ's to the Gathering. > > Regards, > > Steve Glover > KR-2 N902G > AJO, Ca > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 16:25:22 +0100 (CET) From: daren@cogdon.freeserve.co.uk Subject: RE: KR> Loop De Loop To: KRnet Message-ID: <27358763.1131377122065.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I think I have a copy of it someplace. > Message Received: Nov 06 2005, 05:58 PM > From: "Hauck, John MAJ HHC-37th TRANS" > To: "KRnet" > Cc: > Subject: RE: KR> Loop De Loop > > Send it to me too please! It will be great entertainment for our > brother aviators here! > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On > Behalf Of Steve Bray > Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 6:53 PM > To: krnet@mylist.net > Subject: KR> Loop De Loop > > Hello List > > Someone sent me a clip of a 150 doing a loop and a dog in the back > floated > up as they went over. > It was great and I lost it. No idea who sent it and this is a shot in > the > dark. If anyone out there has it or sent it to me could you please send > it > again. > > Thanks, > Steve Bray > Jackson, Tennessee > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 09:35:16 -0600 From: "Steve Bray" Subject: Re: RE: KR> Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dan I'm glad you did save it and I'm glad I sent it to you. I haven't a clue where it came from, or hoe I lost it. Thanks, Steve Bray Jackson, Tennessee >From: >Reply-To: KRnet >To: KRnet >Subject: Re: RE: KR> Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. >Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 7:44:38 -0600 > >No, I did not have it. I put it there after you sent it to me. I hope >everyone enjoys it. I feel sorry for the dog. >From: "Steve Bray" >Date: 2005/11/07 Mon AM 06:09:40 CST >To: krnet@mylist.net >Subject: RE: KR> Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. > >Thanks Dan > >It was there all the time? It seems to have stured a lot of intrest, hope >everyone likes it as much as I do. > >Steve Bray >Jackson, Tennessee > > > > > >From: "Dan Heath" > >Reply-To: KRnet > >To: > >Subject: KR> Re: "Loop" video - Ready for your viewing pleasure. > >Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 05:17:49 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) > > > >Anyone wanting to see the "Loop" AKA "Flying Friend" video, you can get >it > >from this link or from a link on the home page of KRBuilder.org under > >presentations from other builders. > > > >http://krbuilder.org/FlyingFriend/FlyingFriend.wmv > > > >See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics > >See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering > >There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for > >building > >is OVER. > >Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC > >_______________________________________ > >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > >_______________________________________ >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:16:17 -0600 From: "Stephen Teate" Subject: KR> TSO'd Instruments To: Message-ID: <98DAC793BA09104DA961CAFAA33C79580807D5@ccs-svr1.CCS.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Last night I was shopping with my A.S. catalog for instruments. There are some fairly significant differences in price between TSO'd and non-TSO'd instruments. I am curious who is using which one and why? Thanks in advance, Stephen steate@compositecooling.com ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 11:17:54 -0500 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> AS504x wings To: krnet@mylist.net Cc: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051107.111754.820.0.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is true, you have to move the center aft to get more laminar flow. Jeff vikensairfoil on the VK-30 had laminar flow back to 70% chord and it would make the KR-1 more stable. Sincerely Jim On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 14:56:59 -0000 (GMT) writes: > Hi, > > How does the use of AS504* wings affect CG range. > > The wings having a different profile, presumably have a different > centre > of lift - my guess from looking at the profiles is that the centre > of lift > moves aft. > > So what is the impact on CG and is there a different practical CG > range > for aircraft with these wings? > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 11:26:16 -0500 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: KR> Flight Report To: krnet@mylist.net Cc: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051107.112617.820.1.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Its O.K. but its pre-world war II technology and it is laminar flow up to 30% chord on the airfoil where Jeff Vikens airfoil that he used on the Cirrrus VK-30 had laminar flow up to 70% deminstrated in flight by NASA on a Cessna 210 . Sincerely Jim On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 07:12:34 -0800 "Steve Glover" writes: > Well, lets see, Richard Shirley uses a 63 series and is one of the > fastest KR's out there at 215 MPH on 70 hp. With 110+ hp the new > plane > should be a screamer all cleaned up. The maneuverability he has is > unreal. I amazes me every time we fly together (irritates me > actually > because I can't do it in mine). I considered a Lancair legacy wing > and a > few others but when you look at top speed and what you reasonable > can do > on the slow side for stall and landings, the 63 looked the best for > my > application. I believe it is also what Mooney uses. > > Regards, > Steve Glover > KR-2 N902G > AJO, Ca > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On > Behalf Of JAMES FERRIS > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:03 AM > To: krnet@mylist.net > Cc: krnet@mylist.net > Subject: Re: KR> Flight Report > > > Hi Steve: Its really none of my business, but why would you use a > 63 > series airfoil when ther are airfoils out there that will give you > 40% > more laminar flow to increase you top speed? Sincerely Jim On Sun, 6 > Nov > 2005 19:38:14 -0800 "Steve Glover" writes: > > Oh no, tell us it is not true. > > > > You are not building one of erector set airplanes, are you? > > > > Brian Kraut > > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > > www.engalt.com > > > > > > I'm afraid it is true...however I would never give in to the Dark > > Side > > of the Erector sets! (sorry Dana) :) The deal is done pending > > final > > inspection when the buyer comes out from Boston. I learned this > > evening > > that the intention is, in fact, to take the KR to Boston at some > > point > > but I will keep it until arrangements can be made for shipping or > to > > fly > > it back. Too bad for me that I will still have access to it for > > now. ;) > > > > > > My plan actually is to buy a flying Varieze until my LongEZ is > > completed. I'll then sell the Vari to finance the new plane...a > > highly modified KR-1. Richard Shirley and I are collaborating on > the > > new design and anticipate 240 - 275 MPH cruise. I will document > the > > construction process in case anyone is interested. The short list > of > > the > > design will be a 63 series airfoil, P-51 style electric retracts, > > stretched, widened, glass cockpit with auto pilot for the long > trips > > and > > possibly O2 if I install the turbo for high altitude travel. Stay > > > tuned. > > > > > > I'll most likely start on the new plane sometime this next year. > I > > am > > hoping to have the L-EZ back in the air by spring or early summer > so > > I > > will be flying one of the EZ's to the Gathering. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Glover > > KR-2 N902G > > AJO, Ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 08:37:50 -0800 From: "Steve Glover" Subject: RE: KR> Flight Report To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <005f01c5e3b9$9ad7b550$0202a8c0@IntelliSpec> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Its O.K. but its pre-world war II technology and it is laminar flow up to 30% chord on the airfoil where Jeff Vikens airfoil that he used on the Cirrrus VK-30 had laminar flow up to 70% deminstrated in flight by NASA on a Cessna 210 . Sincerely Jim >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting but how many of these actually are currently flying. I found only 2 in the FAA data base...not enough testing for me. Steve ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 12:01:38 -0500 From: herbertsname@netscape.net Subject: KR> Re: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 445 heavy wing fix To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <8C7B1D40D693E6D-1C74-58CE@mblkn-m18.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At the gathering I noticed Mark Jones wing tip loft contours didn't match Larry's looked good , Langfords I didn't compare tip workmanship. Considering the mechanical leverage at the wing tip of wind tip drag coeifficients a reasonable minded buillder may humble there arrogant attitudes frowarded at others in the group and listen to constructive comments. ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 11:59:06 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> AS504x wings To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004e01c5e3c4$f2dcf7f0$d004a58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original > How does the use of AS504* wings affect CG range. It's close enough to the old wing that you don't need to worry about it. There are several flying now, with no problems. I don't remember the exact location of the center of lift, but if I can find it I'll send it to you. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 11:59:18 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR>heavy wing fix To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004f01c5e3c4$f9cd1770$d004a58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original herbertsname@netscape.net wrote: > Considering the mechanical leverage at the wing tip of wind tip drag > coeifficients a reasonable minded buillder may humble there arrogant > attitudes frowarded at others in the group and listen to constructive > comments. I think I may have a pretty good idea as to a contributing factor on my plane, if not the total culprit. Checking the ailerons last night I noticed that on the left one I had the cusp that accurately follows the airfoil, but on the right one, I straightened out the cusp. I build those ailerons a year or so apart, and somewhere between building the first one and the second one I decided to delete the cusp in favor of reducing the aileron control system's loading. Only problem is I forgot to go back and fill in the pilot's side! Good thing my ailerons are easily removed... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:12:41 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> AS504x wings To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051107181241.11702.qmail@web51410.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 The center of lift of any airfoil, will move around with changes in AoA, it's not a fixed point on the airfoil. Designers typically use the term Aerodynamic Center which is a fixed point on the wing, usually the C/4, or 1/4 chord point when doing initial design work. Denny ... --- Mark Langford wrote: > > How does the use of AS504* wings affect CG range. > > It's close enough to the old wing that you don't > need to worry about it. > There are several flying now, with no problems. I > don't remember the exact > location of the center of lift, but if I can find it > I'll send it to you. > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > see KR2S project N56ML at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > A fondness for power is implanted, in most men, and it is natural to abuse it, when acquired. Alexander Hamilton, The Farmer Refuted, February 23, 1775 __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:16:15 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Elder Subject: Re: KR> AS504x wings To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051107181615.79041.qmail@web54707.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Ahh, except for symmetrical airfoils from what I understand. Apparently it never changes. > The center of lift of any airfoil, will move around > with changes in AoA, it's not a fixed point on the > airfoil. ------------------------------------------------- Matthew Elder Orangeburg, SC http://www.infinigral.com/melder My Airplane Project: http://www.infinigral.com/melder/flying/KR1/ ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:27:08 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> AS504x wings To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051107182708.52540.qmail@web51405.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I would like to see that reference, I would be surprised if the center of lift didn't move some with changes in AoA. Denny ... --- Matthew Elder wrote: > > Ahh, except for symmetrical airfoils from what I > understand. Apparently it never changes. > > > > The center of lift of any airfoil, will move > around > > with changes in AoA, it's not a fixed point on the > > airfoil. > > > ------------------------------------------------- > Matthew Elder > Orangeburg, SC > http://www.infinigral.com/melder > > My Airplane Project: > http://www.infinigral.com/melder/flying/KR1/ > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > A fondness for power is implanted, in most men, and it is natural to abuse it, when acquired. Alexander Hamilton, The Farmer Refuted, February 23, 1775 __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 12:28:38 -0600 From: "Dan Michaels" Subject: Re: KR> TSO'd Instruments To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003601c5e3c9$15131170$6601a8c0@N32394> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original TSO'd instruments are generally the same as non TSO'd they just do not have the documentation for Ceritfied planes. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Teate" To: Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:16 AM Subject: KR> TSO'd Instruments > Last night I was shopping with my A.S. catalog for instruments. There > are some fairly significant differences in price between TSO'd and > non-TSO'd instruments. I am curious who is using which one and why? > > Thanks in advance, > > Stephen > > steate@compositecooling.com > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005 > > ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 14:31:40 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> AS504x wings To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20051107141331.01e2fca0@mail.peoplepc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:27 PM 11/7/2005, you wrote: >I would like to see that reference, I would be >surprised if the center of lift didn't move some with >changes in AoA. These last few posts have mixed a number of different aero terms. The 1/4 chord location is located 0.25 times the chord back from the leading edge and on the chord line. In x/c , y/c coordinates that means 0.25, 0.0 The aerodynamic center is the point at which the pitch moment is constant. It is near the 1/4 chord location but generally a little behind it. It can be above or below the chord line but it is generally near the chord line. This is the point where all most all modern aero design is based. It does not move to any significant degree over any angle of attack below stall. On a symmetrical airfoil, the 1/4 chord is the aerodynamic center. Based on my calculations, the aerodynamic center of the AS series in x/c , y/c coordinates is: AS5045 0.2533, -0.0006 AS5046 0.2539, -0.0007 AS5048 0.2566, -0.0012 and for comparison, the RAF48 is 0.2528, -0.0005 The center of lift and center of pressure are older terms that mean a point at which the pitch moment is equal to zero. These move with the angle of attack. They are difficult to use in any real aeronautical calculation but they still show up in older reference books. Don Reid - donreid "at" peoplepc.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: http://aerofoilengineering.com KR2XL construction: http://aerofoilengineering.com/KR/KR2XL.htm Aviation Surplus: http://aerofoilengineering.com/PartsListing/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA Regional Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 447 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================