From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 449 Date: 11/8/2005 2:58:51 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: ANC-18 (Steve Jacobs) 2. Re: Off Subject (Cris.) 3. Re: Da loop (Cris.) 4. R?f. : Re: KR> Da loop (Serge VIDAL) 5. Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Da loop (Cris.) 6. R?f. : RE: KR> ANC-18 (Serge VIDAL) 7. Re: more accurate distance of wheels above runway on landings. (patrusso) 8. R?f. : Re: KR> more accurate distance of wheels above runway on landings. (Serge VIDAL) 9. Re: Da loop (patrusso) 10. Re: Da loop (Cris.) 11. Civil unrest in France (Serge VIDAL) 12. R?f. : Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Da loop (Serge VIDAL) 13. "virata sfogata". (Dan Heath) 14. Re: R?f. : Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Da loop (Cris.) 15. Re: R?f. : Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Da loop (Cris.) 16. RE: "virata sfogata". (Hauck, John MAJ HHC-37th TRANS) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 20:05:01 -0800 From: "Steve Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> ANC-18 To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c5e4e2$c2e35f70$a164a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can anyone tell me where on the FAA web site I can get ANC-18, or alternative sites, and can anyone reccommend any good books on wooden aircraft construction. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Don Reid may still have some - get ANC 18; 19 and 5 while you are at it - best buy I made in a while. [donreid"at"peoplepc.com] Steve Zambia ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 07:58:45 +0100 From: "Cris." Subject: Re: KR> Off Subject To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Serge is probably ok. The problem is if anyone who dares to face him will be the same :-) Serge, tell something :-) Cris. 2005/11/8, Phil Matheson : > > Sorry guys and gals > But I was hope that serge was OK in Paris, with all the cival unrest > and trouble, I have not heard from him. Hope you are OK Serge. > > Phillip Matheson > VHPKR > Australia. > mathesonp@dodo.com.au > > http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ > http://www.vw-engines.com/ > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 10:05:41 +0100 From: "Cris." Subject: Re: KR> Da loop To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 O'll try in english :-) The plane I flew is the one of Alberto Zorzi, you al saw in the web page I posted weeks ago (http://www.aviocris.com/kr2s). The first thing I remember is when he appeared above us at the airfield. Different sound different look from any other plane we have :-) He showed on the vertical of the grass strip, then came down in a way I could not understand, boys, that guy knows how to land! He taxied toward me, then let his (really gorgeous) female passenger, incidentally a liutenant of italian AF he's actually dating (good luck, Alberto!) and invited me to get in the cockpit. Taxiing I discovered that the wings are REALLY SHORT! The take off was a little long, the machine has no flaps, but consider that I am saying "long" comparing to our way, because the strip is 600 meters (1800 feet?) long. After a short run with the nose down to get a good airspeed he left me the stick and told me to rise, then I was totally impressed how fast the plane went up with only slightly more than 70 HP! I did a couple of steep turns just to get acquainted, then he asked me to go over the clouds to play a bit. We were there in no time, 3000 ft agl (3700 altitude) and after a short cruise at 150 mph we began to play with the clouds. We performed some manouvers I don't know the english for (sorry), then two tonneau. We then went down to brush the strip with a very very very fast passage (I was not looking at the anemometer, ehm...) and prepared to land. He showed me how to break ground effect and put the nose down a little by gently crossing the controls (stick left, right pedal) and we stopped after 250 meters. That plane (but all KRs, I think) is amazing. It's a different planet, comparing to our best ultralights, especially keeping in mind that she perfectly fits with ultralight specifications, being even lighter than the average ULMs. she's fast, stable, ROCK solid, very responsive, transmitting a great sense of safety. I was waiting for that "pitch sensitibility" but got surprised: it's not that sensitive, very similar to my Storm that, I have to say, is a bit nervous by her own. I went home driving my car and kept thinking of that flight, arrived home, promised Maria that next weekend would be her weekend (both days) and switched on the PC to put my motorbike for sale, you know, spruce is expensive :-) I am in love with that plane. C. 2005/11/8, jscott.pilot@juno.com : > > Cristiano, > > Go ahead and post your impressions in Italian. There are many > translation web pages available. One of us will have your post > translated, then repost it. > > Jeff Scott > N1213W > > On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 23:50:20 +0100 "Cris." writes: > > Oh, well, I forgot (kidding): saturday morning... my first flight on > > a KR2S. > > > > Two tonneau. > > That plane is GREAT. My english is not enough. I'll have someone > > translate in italian what I felt :-) > > c. > > > > 2005/11/7, patrusso : > > > > > > That really wasn't a loop. Looked to me like a parabola performed > > to > > > achieve > > > a brief moment of weightlessness > > > Now i know why they call it a doggy bag > > > > > > Cristiano..are you still logged on? > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 10:25:13 +0100 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : Re: KR> Da loop To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Chris, A tonneau would be a barrel roll (tonneau barriqué) or an aileron roll (tonneau) Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Cris." Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem.com@mylist.net 2005-11-07 23:50 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-11-07 23:50 Pour : KRnet cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : Re: KR> Da loop Oh, well, I forgot (kidding): saturday morning... my first flight on a KR2S. Two tonneau. That plane is GREAT. My english is not enough. I'll have someone translate in italian what I felt :-) c. 2005/11/7, patrusso : > > That really wasn't a loop. Looked to me like a parabola performed to > achieve a brief moment of weightlessness > Now i know why they call it a doggy bag > > Cristiano..are you still logged on? > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 10:31:54 +0100 From: "Cris." Subject: Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Da loop To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ok, I did a barrel roll. In italian "tonneau a botte". We call it tonneau anyway. "Botte" is the italian for "barrel". So, help me with a different manuever name. You dive to get speed, then pull until the nose gets to 30 degrees on the horizon, then slightly turn loosing speed, get 110 degrees of bank and go back down to end the turn at the same speed you entered, but opposite direction. We call it "virata sfogata". C. 2005/11/8, Serge VIDAL : > > Chris, > > A tonneau would be a barrel roll (tonneau barriqué) or an aileron roll > (tonneau) > > Serge Vidal > KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" > Paris, France > > > > > > "Cris." > > Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem.com@mylist.net > 2005-11-07 23:50 > Veuillez répondre à KRnet > Remis le : 2005-11-07 23:50 > > > Pour : KRnet > cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) > Objet : Re: KR> Da loop > > > > Oh, well, I forgot (kidding): saturday morning... my first flight on a > KR2S. > > Two tonneau. > That plane is GREAT. My english is not enough. I'll have someone > translate in italian what I felt :-) c. > > 2005/11/7, patrusso : > > > > That really wasn't a loop. Looked to me like a parabola performed to > > achieve a brief moment of weightlessness > > Now i know why they call it a doggy bag > > > > Cristiano..are you still logged on? > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > -- > Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 10:39:52 +0100 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : RE: KR> ANC-18 To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I do have ANC-18 as a PDF file. Size is 11.4 Mo Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Steve Jacobs" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-11-09 05:05 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-11-08 07:07 Pour : "'KRnet'" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : RE: KR> ANC-18 Can anyone tell me where on the FAA web site I can get ANC-18, or alternative sites, and can anyone reccommend any good books on wooden aircraft construction. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Don Reid may still have some - get ANC 18; 19 and 5 while you are at it - best buy I made in a while. [donreid"at"peoplepc.com] Steve Zambia _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 04:45:30 -0500 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> more accurate distance of wheels above runway on landings. To: "harold woods" , "KRnet" Message-ID: <000d01c5e449$289758c0$20a772d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Nice! Lots off possibilities there, warning lights, horns, etc..even correlate with a retract system. ----- Original Message ----- From: "harold woods" To: Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 11:11 PM Subject: KR> more accurate distance of wheels above runway on landings. > Hi Netters, > > I would like to bounce this off all of you out there. > > The closer that you can monitor the distance that the main wheels are > off the runway as you settle in for a landing, the better. You can > purchase low cost laser measuring tapes. Would it be possible to shine > the laser light out the bottom of the fuselage onto the ground? The > laser then tells you how > far the fuselage is off of the ground. In the hanger set up the fuselage > so > that the wheels are almost ready to touch the floor. Take a measurement. > In > the future turn the laser on and when you are almost at this predetermined > distance, your wheels would be ready to touch. > > Turn on the gray matter. What can you come up with? > > Regards > > Harold Woods. > > Orillia,ON.Canada. > > haroldwoods@rogers.com > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 10:48:14 +0100 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : Re: KR> more accurate distance of wheels above runway on landings. To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Actually, these things don't work on Laser. The Laser is just an aiming device. Measurement is by ultrasound. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "patrusso" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem.com@mylist.net 2005-11-08 10:45 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-11-08 10:45 Pour : "harold woods" , "KRnet" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : Re: KR> more accurate distance of wheels above runway on landings. Nice! Lots off possibilities there, warning lights, horns, etc..even correlate with a retract system. ----- Original Message ----- From: "harold woods" To: Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 11:11 PM Subject: KR> more accurate distance of wheels above runway on landings. > Hi Netters, > > I would like to bounce this off all of you out there. > > The closer that you can monitor the distance that the main wheels are off > the runway as you settle in for a landing, the better. You can > purchase > low > cost laser measuring tapes. Would it be possible to shine the laser light > out the bottom of the fuselage onto the ground? The laser then tells > you > how > far the fuselage is off of the ground. In the hanger set up the > fuselage > so > that the wheels are almost ready to touch the floor. Take a > measurement. > In > the future turn the laser on and when you are almost at this predetermined > distance, your wheels would be ready to touch. > > Turn on the gray matter. What can you come up with? > > Regards > > Harold Woods. > > Orillia,ON.Canada. > > haroldwoods@rogers.com > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 05:02:19 -0500 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> Da loop To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004a01c5e44b$81ce7ac0$20a772d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Cristiano...what I was looking for is your e-mail address so that I could send an occasional sketch of helpful construction techniques and tools that have worked best for me over the years. How is your new house coming along? Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cris." To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 4:05 AM Subject: Re: KR> Da loop > O'll try in english :-) > > The plane I flew is the one of Alberto Zorzi, you al saw in the web > page I posted weeks ago (http://www.aviocris.com/kr2s). The first > thing I remember is when he appeared above us at the airfield. > Different sound different look from any other plane we have :-) He > showed on the vertical of the grass strip, then came down in a way I > could not understand, boys, that guy knows how to land! > > He taxied toward me, then let his (really gorgeous) female passenger, > incidentally a liutenant of italian AF he's actually dating (good > luck, > Alberto!) and invited me to get in the cockpit. > > Taxiing I discovered that the wings are REALLY SHORT! The take off was > a little long, the machine has no flaps, but consider that I am saying > "long" comparing to our way, because the strip is 600 meters (1800 > feet?) long. After a short run with the nose down to get a good > airspeed he left me the stick and told me to rise, then I was totally > impressed how fast the plane went up with only slightly more than 70 > HP! I did a couple of steep turns just to get acquainted, then he > asked me to go over the clouds to play a bit. We were there in no > time, 3000 ft agl (3700 altitude) and after a short > cruise at 150 mph we began to play with the clouds. We performed some > manouvers I don't know the english for (sorry), then two tonneau. We then > went down to brush the strip with a very very very fast passage (I was not > looking at the anemometer, ehm...) and prepared to land. He showed me how > to > break ground effect and put the nose down a little by gently crossing the > controls (stick left, right pedal) and we stopped after 250 meters. > > That plane (but all KRs, I think) is amazing. It's a different planet, > comparing to our best ultralights, especially keeping in mind that she > perfectly fits with ultralight specifications, being even lighter than > the average ULMs. she's fast, stable, ROCK solid, very responsive, > transmitting a great sense of safety. I was waiting for that "pitch > sensitibility" but got surprised: it's not that sensitive, very > similar to my Storm that, I have to say, is a bit nervous by her own. > > I went home driving my car and kept thinking of that flight, arrived > home, promised Maria that next weekend would be her weekend (both > days) and switched on the PC to put my motorbike for sale, you know, > spruce is expensive :-) > > I am in love with that plane. > > C. > > > 2005/11/8, jscott.pilot@juno.com : >> >> Cristiano, >> >> Go ahead and post your impressions in Italian. There are many >> translation web pages available. One of us will have your post >> translated, then repost it. >> >> Jeff Scott >> N1213W >> >> On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 23:50:20 +0100 "Cris." writes: >> > Oh, well, I forgot (kidding): saturday morning... my first flight >> > on a KR2S. >> > >> > Two tonneau. >> > That plane is GREAT. My english is not enough. I'll have someone >> > translate in italian what I felt :-) >> > c. >> > >> > 2005/11/7, patrusso : >> > > >> > > That really wasn't a loop. Looked to me like a parabola performed >> > to >> > > achieve >> > > a brief moment of weightlessness >> > > Now i know why they call it a doggy bag >> > > >> > > Cristiano..are you still logged on? >> >> _______________________________________ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > > > > -- > Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 11:13:49 +0100 From: "Cris." Subject: Re: KR> Da loop To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Everything is warmly welcome! My address is flyingb@gmail.com and there's PLENTY of storage space, so yoiu can send me almost everything you want. Better, I'll send you a private e-mail, so that you can just reply :-) Thank you! C. 2005/11/8, patrusso : > > Cristiano...what I was looking for is your e-mail address so that I > could send an occasional sketch of helpful construction techniques and > tools that have worked best for me over the years. How is your new > house coming along? > Pat > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cris." > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 4:05 AM > Subject: Re: KR> Da loop > > > > O'll try in english :-) > > > > The plane I flew is the one of Alberto Zorzi, you al saw in the web > > page > I > > posted weeks ago (http://www.aviocris.com/kr2s). > > The first thing I remember is when he appeared above us at the > > airfield. Different sound different look from any other plane we > > have :-) He showed on the vertical of the grass strip, then came > > down in a way I could not understand, boys, that guy knows how to > > land! > > > > He taxied toward me, then let his (really gorgeous) female > > passenger, incidentally a liutenant of italian AF he's actually > > dating (good luck, > > Alberto!) and invited me to get in the cockpit. > > > > Taxiing I discovered that the wings are REALLY SHORT! The take off > > was a little long, the machine has no flaps, but consider that I am > > saying "long" comparing to our way, because the strip is 600 meters > > (1800 feet?) long. After a short run with the nose down to get a > > good airspeed he left me > the > > stick and told me to rise, then I was totally impressed how fast the > plane > > went up with only slightly more than 70 HP! I did a couple of steep > turns > > just to get acquainted, then he asked me to go over the clouds to > > play a bit. We were there in no time, 3000 ft agl (3700 altitude) > > and after a short cruise at 150 mph we began to play with the > > clouds. We performed some manouvers I don't know the english for > > (sorry), then two tonneau. We > then > > went down to brush the strip with a very very very fast passage (I > > was > not > > looking at the anemometer, ehm...) and prepared to land. He showed > > me > how > > to > > break ground effect and put the nose down a little by gently > > crossing > the > > controls (stick left, right pedal) and we stopped after 250 meters. > > > > That plane (but all KRs, I think) is amazing. It's a different > > planet, comparing to our best ultralights, especially keeping in > > mind that she perfectly fits with ultralight specifications, being > > even lighter than > the > > average ULMs. she's fast, stable, ROCK solid, very responsive, > > transmitting a great sense of safety. I was waiting for that "pitch > > sensitibility" > but > > got surprised: it's not that sensitive, very similar to my Storm > > that, I have to say, is a bit nervous by her own. > > > > I went home driving my car and kept thinking of that flight, arrived > home, > > promised Maria that next weekend would be her weekend (both days) > > and switched on the PC to put my motorbike for sale, you know, > > spruce is expensive :-) > > > > I am in love with that plane. > > > > C. > > > > > > 2005/11/8, jscott.pilot@juno.com : > >> > >> Cristiano, > >> > >> Go ahead and post your impressions in Italian. There are many > >> translation web pages available. One of us will have your post > >> translated, then repost it. > >> > >> Jeff Scott > >> N1213W > >> > >> On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 23:50:20 +0100 "Cris." > >> writes: > >> > Oh, well, I forgot (kidding): saturday morning... my first flight > >> > on a KR2S. > >> > > >> > Two tonneau. > >> > That plane is GREAT. My english is not enough. I'll have someone > >> > translate in italian what I felt :-) > >> > c. > >> > > >> > 2005/11/7, patrusso : > >> > > > >> > > That really wasn't a loop. Looked to me like a parabola > >> > > performed > >> > to > >> > > achieve > >> > > a brief moment of weightlessness > >> > > Now i know why they call it a doggy bag > >> > > > >> > > Cristiano..are you still logged on? > >> > >> _______________________________________ > >> Search the KRnet Archives at > >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 11:25:45 +0100 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: KR> Civil unrest in France To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, Phil, and all. Yep, I'm OK, the "civil unrest" is definitely not in my street. Pity, though, 'cause it would be a rare opportunity at taking potshots at the rioters! ;-) More seriously, the situation in France is quite simple: around all large cities, we have suburbs full of young Arabs and Africans, whose fathers came to France long ago when jobs were aplenty. There are also lots of illegal immigrants there, too. These guys probably represent more than 10% of the population now, although nobody knows for sure, because the law forbids to make statistics on an ethnic basis. In general, these populations failed to succeed, despite the faboulous help you get from the state (education is free, and of good quality; parents get monthly child education grants; unemployed people get generous pensions, and when these dry out, you get a "minimum income" grant which is about two thirds of minimum wages; public transports are heavily subsidised; and so on; the list is endless, as is the list of taxes to finance all that). These guys are simply not interested in becoming "normal" citizens, and blame everybody else for their failure. You don't let them do whatever they want? You're a racist, period! When France went under attack by Algerian terrorists, each time the police arrested or killed one, these guys would riot, in support. For the past ten years or so, they have celebrated on New Year's Eve by burning cars (about 500 a year). This time, the unrest has been triggered by the fact that two robbers ran away the police, hid inside an electrical converter post, and killed themselves. Make no mistake. France is not an ethnically based nation. We believe in equal citizenship and common values, and our model puts the state well above communities. Religion and race are considered private matters, and don't get special statuses. We have always had lots of migrants here. Just look at me: father was half Spanish, half Moroccan; mother is Swiss. The guy sitting in front of me at the office is from Italian origin. My assistant is from South East Asia. But smooth integration does not seem to work with these guys. In short, France now houses a large hostile and useless population, and no government will have the balls to deal with the issue, for fear of being branded racists, or insensitive, or whatever. They will simply dump more money into these suburbs, and raise more taxes to pay for it. Their subsidized housing will probably be repainted and overhauled for the umptenth time, so that they can vandalize it again. I'm afraid this country is doomed, because we seem not to know the difference between being human and being stupid. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 11:46:10 +0100 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Da loop To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If I understand well, that would be a Lazy Eight. Serge "Cris." Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-11-08 10:31 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-11-08 10:32 Pour : KRnet cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : Re: Réf. : Re: KR> Da loop Ok, I did a barrel roll. In italian "tonneau a botte". We call it tonneau anyway. "Botte" is the italian for "barrel". So, help me with a different manuever name. You dive to get speed, then pull until the nose gets to 30 degrees on the horizon, then slightly turn loosing speed, get 110 degrees of bank and go back down to end the turn at the same speed you entered, but opposite direction. We call it "virata sfogata". C. 2005/11/8, Serge VIDAL : > > Chris, > > A tonneau would be a barrel roll (tonneau barriqué) or an aileron roll > (tonneau) > > Serge Vidal > KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" > Paris, France > > > > > > "Cris." > > Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem.com@mylist.net > 2005-11-07 23:50 > Veuillez répondre à KRnet > Remis le : 2005-11-07 23:50 > > > Pour : KRnet > cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) > Objet : Re: KR> Da loop > > > > Oh, well, I forgot (kidding): saturday morning... my first flight on a > KR2S. > > Two tonneau. > That plane is GREAT. My english is not enough. I'll have someone translate > in italian what I felt :-) > c. > > 2005/11/7, patrusso : > > > > That really wasn't a loop. Looked to me like a parabola performed to > > achieve a brief moment of weightlessness > > Now i know why they call it a doggy bag > > > > Cristiano..are you still logged on? > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > -- > Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 05:55:55 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> "virata sfogata". To: Message-ID: <4370843B.000003.00584@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Would that be a Chandelle? See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC -------Original Message------- So, help me with a different manuever name. You dive to get speed, then pull until the nose gets to 30 degrees on the horizon, then slightly turn loosing speed, get 110 degrees of bank and go back down to end the turn at the same speed you entered, but opposite direction. We call it "virata sfogata". ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 11:56:09 +0100 From: "Cris." Subject: Re: R?f. : Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Da loop To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 It's something similar to a lazy eight if you do two of them, left and right :-) It's actually a turn of 180, in which you exit with same speed and altitude. I'll try to get a translation and post it. C. 2005/11/8, Serge VIDAL : > > If I understand well, that would be a Lazy Eight. > > Serge > > > > > > "Cris." > > Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net > 2005-11-08 10:31 > Veuillez répondre à KRnet > Remis le : 2005-11-08 10:32 > > > Pour : KRnet > cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) > Objet : Re: Réf. : Re: KR> Da loop > > > > Ok, I did a barrel roll. In italian "tonneau a botte". We call it > tonneau anyway. "Botte" is the italian for "barrel". > > So, help me with a different manuever name. > You dive to get speed, then pull until the nose gets to 30 degrees on > the horizon, then slightly turn loosing speed, get 110 degrees of bank > and go back down to end the turn at the same speed you entered, but > opposite direction. > > We call it "virata sfogata". > > C. > > > 2005/11/8, Serge VIDAL : > > > > Chris, > > > > A tonneau would be a barrel roll (tonneau barriqué) or an aileron > > roll > > (tonneau) > > > > Serge Vidal > > KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" > > Paris, France > > > > > > > > > > > > "Cris." > > > > Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem.com@mylist.net > > 2005-11-07 23:50 > > Veuillez répondre à KRnet > > Remis le : 2005-11-07 23:50 > > > > > > Pour : KRnet > > cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) > > Objet : Re: KR> Da loop > > > > > > > > Oh, well, I forgot (kidding): saturday morning... my first flight on > > a KR2S. > > > > Two tonneau. > > That plane is GREAT. My english is not enough. I'll have someone > translate > > in italian what I felt :-) > > c. > > > > 2005/11/7, patrusso : > > > > > > That really wasn't a loop. Looked to me like a parabola performed > > > to achieve a brief moment of weightlessness > > > Now i know why they call it a doggy bag > > > > > > Cristiano..are you still logged on? > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > -- > Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 11:57:03 +0100 From: "Cris." Subject: Re: R?f. : Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Da loop To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Oh, I got it on Google. The name should be WINGOVER :-) Cris. 2005/11/8, Serge VIDAL : > > If I understand well, that would be a Lazy Eight. > > Serge > > > > > > "Cris." > > Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net > 2005-11-08 10:31 > Veuillez répondre à KRnet > Remis le : 2005-11-08 10:32 > > > Pour : KRnet > cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) > Objet : Re: Réf. : Re: KR> Da loop > > > > Ok, I did a barrel roll. In italian "tonneau a botte". We call it > tonneau anyway. "Botte" is the italian for "barrel". > > So, help me with a different manuever name. > You dive to get speed, then pull until the nose gets to 30 degrees on > the horizon, then slightly turn loosing speed, get 110 degrees of bank > and go back down to end the turn at the same speed you entered, but > opposite direction. > > We call it "virata sfogata". > > C. > > > 2005/11/8, Serge VIDAL : > > > > Chris, > > > > A tonneau would be a barrel roll (tonneau barriqué) or an aileron > > roll > > (tonneau) > > > > Serge Vidal > > KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" > > Paris, France > > > > > > > > > > > > "Cris." > > > > Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem.com@mylist.net > > 2005-11-07 23:50 > > Veuillez répondre à KRnet > > Remis le : 2005-11-07 23:50 > > > > > > Pour : KRnet > > cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) > > Objet : Re: KR> Da loop > > > > > > > > Oh, well, I forgot (kidding): saturday morning... my first flight on > > a KR2S. > > > > Two tonneau. > > That plane is GREAT. My english is not enough. I'll have someone > translate > > in italian what I felt :-) > > c. > > > > 2005/11/7, patrusso : > > > > > > That really wasn't a loop. Looked to me like a parabola performed > > > to achieve a brief moment of weightlessness > > > Now i know why they call it a doggy bag > > > > > > Cristiano..are you still logged on? > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > -- > Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 13:58:00 +0300 From: "Hauck, John MAJ HHC-37th TRANS" Subject: RE: KR> "virata sfogata". To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sounds like an Immelmann turn. From WW I...I will google it later -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Dan Heath Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 1:56 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> "virata sfogata". Would that be a Chandelle? See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC -------Original Message------- So, help me with a different manuever name. You dive to get speed, then pull until the nose gets to 30 degrees on the horizon, then slightly turn loosing speed, get 110 degrees of bank and go back down to end the turn at the same speed you entered, but opposite direction. We call it "virata sfogata". _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 449 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================