From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 480 Date: 11/23/2005 1:02:57 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: cutting sponge foam (Frank Ross) 2. Re: Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents (Frank Ross) 3. Re: B*d Language (Frank Ross) 4. VW Getting more Power (Dan Heath) 5. Re: performance numbers? (Joseph H. Horton) 6. performance numbers? (Larry&Sallie Flesner) 7. Re: performance numbers? (Orma) 8. Re: performance numbers? (jodel@alphalink.com.au) 9. Prop position on C 90 (L. D. Mueller) 10. Re: cutting sponge foam & other tips (Scott Cable) 11. RE: VW Getting more Power (Doug Rupert) 12. Re: performance numbers? (larry severson) 13. RE: Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents (Ronald R.Eason) 14. Re: cutting sponge foam (Ron Smith) 15. Re: cutting sponge foam (Cris.) 16. Re: Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents (jeffyork40@qx.net) 17. Re: performance numbers? (Larry&Sallie Flesner) 18. Re: performance numbers? (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 19. Re: Prop position on C 90 (Jeff Scott) 20. Re: performance numbers? (Jeff Scott) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:06:57 -0800 (PST) From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> cutting sponge foam To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051123060657.72522.qmail@web32006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 --- Oscar Zuniga wrote: > When cutting sponge foam such as is used for > upholstery and cushions, use an > electric knife. The one I use is one that came with .... > Be sure to rinse off the knife blades before you put > the knife away, or your .... > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX Good reminder Oscar. Watching a TV show the other day I realized that auto upholsterers have a variety of smaller electric knives they use on all types of foam. I first used our kitchen electric knife (which wasn't getting much use anyway) to re-shape my motorcycle seat in San Antonio in 1977. Must be something about San Antonio. Guess that was a long time ago, but it only seems like yesterday... Frank Frank Ross, EAA Chapter 35, San Geronimo, TX RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England, UK Visit my photo album at: http://photos.yahoo.com/alamokr2 __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:21:50 -0800 (PST) From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051123062150.67289.qmail@web32008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 --- jeffyork40@qx.net wrote: > I love this subject and have contemplated turbo > charging my 2180 .... > Jeff York KR-2 Flying N839BG Jeff, That's why they call it "experimental". I think the huge success of the KR is that it is simple. Add enough complexity and you end up with a different plane (Lancair) or you never get it built. There's lots of room for improvement, so most KR builders get to enjoy a life-time of tweaking long after their KR is flying. What more could you ask for? Frank Frank Ross, EAA Chapter 35, San Geronimo, TX RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England, UK Visit my photo album at: http://photos.yahoo.com/alamokr2 __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:26:40 -0800 (PST) From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> B*d Language To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051123062640.74974.qmail@web32011.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 --- billstarrs@peoplepc.com wrote: > What was the bad language? Cesna? Beach? or one of > them other *&##%*^+#** things? Bill Starrs KR1 Now Bill, You're not trying to get Dan to scr*w up again are you? Fr*nk R*ss in England where the words we (US) think are "bad" are used every day and words like boll*cks, bum and bloody are REALLY, REALLY BAAAAAD!!!!!! Sorry for the *ffensive language, but it had to be s*id. Frank Ross, EAA Chapter 35, San Geronimo, TX RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England, UK Visit my photo album at: http://photos.yahoo.com/alamokr2 __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:24:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> VW Getting more Power To: Message-ID: <43844357.000001.01488@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, is have seen this done. There is VW repair and machine shop, or was, in Donalds, South Carolina. The owner, Pat, made a 1/2 VW into a 2 liter engine I am sure that Jerry has more of the specifics on this, but I have seen it done. However, I don't think that I would fly behind it. That said, please notice that I changed the subject line to be in line with the subject and I have trimmed all of the thread other than what was pertinent to THIS subject. I am only pointing this out because some of these are getting very long and dragged from post to post and eventually the subject isn't even the subject anymore, and asking that everyone try to be diligent about cleaning out the old stuff. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC -------Original Message------- to produce a reliable more powerful engine along the lines of the WW Corvair stuff. Thus giving greater performance with greater parts availability. Now, can I still throw in there that I think what Steve and Linda Bennet have done for the VW engine is absolutely awesome ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:52:50 -0500 From: "Joseph H. Horton" Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051123.055251.2488.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Larry, The numbers are indicated. But i believe they are very close. The GPS and the VSI agree within 50' of each other as will as the altitude and the airspeed all seem to be nearly right on. I will time things when I get more proficient. RPM's are the most suspect for accuracy and I will have that checked on the next flight. The only thing that I se for the different number in climb is the rpm you posted. At 90 mph I am turning 3000 rpm. At 80 mph it drops of to 2800 plus or minus. I had hesitated to post numbers yet because I knew that I did not have complete accuracy but I am sure they are in the ball park. Like I mentioned also my plane is completely faired and gap seals all on. So I have no way of knowing how they affect things. Joe Horton, Coopersburg, PA. joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com > >58" x 64 Sterba prop > > The numbers: > >normal climb-90 mph indicated-- 1200'/min > >best angle climb-- 80 mph -- 1500'/min > >75%power cruise -- 2800 rpm-- 145mph > >WOT--3150 rpm--170mph > >cruse climb-- 2800 rpm--700'/m-- 130 mph > >Joe Horton > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Joe, > > Are your climb numbers measured or indicated on a VSI ? > > The reason I ask is that you Corvair fliers seem to get better climb > performance than my 0-200. I'm talking anywhere from 200 to 700 feet. > I'm running a 60X64 Sterba prop and I'll get 800 fpm climb max but I > still get 170mph the same as you in cruise at 2650 rpm. I know I'm > not getting the hp out of my engine on climbout (2350 - 2400 rpm) but > a 50% better climb rate is hard to fathom. > > You Corvair fliers are all running the new wing , I think, and I'm > running a stock KR wing but the numbers difference is hard for me to > believe. > > Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:30:39 -0600 From: Larry&Sallie Flesner Subject: KR> performance numbers? To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20051123051948.037ae718@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > The numbers are indicated. But i believe they are very close. > >Joe Horton +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ When I posted I forgot you have the 3100 ci engine. You may well be pulling 80 to 100 hp on climb out while I'm lucky to be getting 70 hp on climb out at 2300 to 2400 rpm. A friend of mine has a 62X49 Sensenich prop that I'm tempted to try just to see what some extra hp on takeoff and climb would do. I'm running a Sterba 60X64 so the 62X49 ought to let me turn up considerable rpm but will really kill my cruise numbers I suspect. I sure wish Santa could bring me a constant speed prop for Christmas. :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:22:07 -0500 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <015801c5f028$86ef8790$0302a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I sure wish Santa could bring me a constant speed prop for Christmas. :-) Larry does anyone make one for the O-200??? Orma ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 00:52:09 +1000 From: jodel@alphalink.com.au Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051123144015.M63198@alphalink.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi all just a ? that has probibly been answered befor in regards to the WAF. Has anyone used stanless steel in say marin grade stanless. I'm gesing that the stanless would be strong enought or would it need to be resized to give the same strenght as the 4130 steel. Albert. On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:22:07 -0500, Orma wrote > I sure wish Santa could bring me a constant speed prop for > Christmas. :-) > > Larry does anyone make one for the O-200??? > > Orma > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, > send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info > at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ___________________________________________________ Alphalink WebMail - http://webmail.alphalink.com.au ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:57:29 -0600 From: "L. D. Mueller" Subject: KR> Prop position on C 90 To: Message-ID: <200511231457.jANEvST4004609@pearl.mhtc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey everyone: does anyone know at what position a metal prop should be relative to cylinder number and stroke? I have an overhauled prop reinstalled on a C 90 that has a little vibration @2200. The prop is true and tracks right on. It didn't have this vibration before. So I think I need to reposition it. Anyone want to give it a whirl? ; - ) Thanks L. D. Mueller 521 North Madison St. Cuba City, WI 53807 ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:55:55 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR> cutting sponge foam & other tips To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051123155556.56196.qmail@web53006.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Oscar & Netters, In the Upolstery world, this is called skeiving (pronounced sky-ving). In fact there are guys that work for some automotive seating suppliers that are truely artisans at this craft. They can skeive foam to shape and you would swear that the foam was created in a mold. Did you know that you can use ordinary weed-whacker line to create details / "piping" etc. in the covers and under the foam? You can attach the covers to the line (under the foam) with hog-rings. You can also fabricate "spring mats" out of weed whacker line and wire, with the wire spaced approximately 3/8ths apart. Secure the mat with springs to the seat cushion frame. You will need some fairly stiff springs, something like a .5 mean diameter and maybe .078 dia wire something around 1.5 inches long. You could maybe use some drum brake return springs, as they would be pretty close to what you should use. Mount the spring mat in the seat frame centered on the Ischial contact point. (tail bone). I highly recomend the use of a spring mat, as it reduces driver (pilot) and passenger fatigue during long flights by reducing vibrations into the body. Oscar Zuniga wrote: When cutting sponge foam such as is used for upholstery and cushions, use an electric knife. The one I use is one that came with a bread slicing setup, but most any electric knife will work. Scott Cable Jamestown, ND s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:56:09 -0500 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> VW Getting more Power To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <001d01c5f046$6efd7b10$2e3cd0d8@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dan more power is always available no matter what the engine but at what cost? They currently have a highly modified VW that puts out a shade over 1000 (that's right a thousand) horse but you sure wouldn't find me flying behind that grenade. One of the main reasons I chose to go Corvair is the fact that 180 HP is not unreasonable since GM didn't change a thing on the block or crank itself for their turbo models. Of course this was on a road vehicle and does not apply to aircraft applications. I'm following WW's turbo experimentation very closely as this along with modern fuel injection would seem in my opinion at least to be the way to go for excellent torque and fuel efficiency. Modern electronics has allowed these systems to be self adjusting to 10,000 feet doing away with complicated mixture control. Of course all these improvements are highly dependent on a reliable electrical system but as so many KR builders have proven over the years, anything is possible given enough determination, money and staying power. As I was scrapping out an old Dodge Caravan the other day the throttle body fuel injection manifold caught my eye. The letters 3.0 liter as well as the fact that it is compact and completely made from aluminum started the wheels turning. Needless to say the complete unit, sensors and wiring harness were carefully removed before the carcass left for the scrap yard. Maybe one day but for now it's getting a stock Corvair built and mounted for flight. Doug Rupert Yes, is have seen this done. There is VW repair and machine shop, or was, in Donalds, South Carolina. The owner, Pat, made a 1/2 VW into a 2 liter engine I am sure that Jerry has more of the specifics on this, but I have seen it done. However, I don't think that I would fly behind it. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:31:02 -0800 From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20051123082851.030ebf30@socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 04:22 AM 11/23/2005, you wrote: >I sure wish Santa could bring me a constant speed prop for Christmas. :-) > >Larry does anyone make one for the O-200??? John Moyle (Contact Magazine) is importing a ground single point adjustable prop that he expects shortly to have in-flight adjustable at about 16 lbs for under $2K Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:18:46 -0600 From: "Ronald R.Eason" Subject: RE: KR> Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <006d01c5f051$f7259620$6601a8c0@CADENGINEERING> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am turbo charging my VW/Rayjay Happi variant. I have added to the design a larger Oil cooler, wastegate, pop-off valve and ECU controlled fuel injection configured and PC programmable MAP. The pop off valve and wastegate have special selected springs. I have also added ceramic coatings to the combustion chamber, Nicke aluminum cylinders and poly coated bearings. All investments are made and I will assemble the engine after I finish the airplane. By the way I have some fuel injection manifolds for a 2180 for sale if anyone is interested. Ronald R. Eason Sr. President / CEO Ph: 816-468-4091 Fax: 816-468-5465 http://www.jrl-engineering.com Our Attitude Makes The Difference! -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of jeffyork40@qx.net Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 4:36 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents I love this subject and have contemplated turbo charging my 2180 for quite some time. I feel I have extensive knowledge of turbo charging systems as I have done extensive amounts of turbo and turbo engine work on automobile applications. However, and not to slight anyone here, I don't think I would ever consider taking a turbo from one application and believe I could bolt it to my VW 2180 or a Corvair engine and expect success. I cut my teeth in turbo experimenting with automobiles. I will also credit much of the knowledge I gained came from many individuals involved in the Shelby Dodge Auto Clubs. Here is what I learned. Or, I could just cut to the finish and suggest that if you want to turbo your airplane, start with a proven turbo and engine application and then make minor modifications as you need. But back to what I learned. With a turbo several things are critical to it's success. I would say that the most important is proper air fuel ratio delivery and the ability to monitor that. In an aircraft , this would be highly critical. I think more engines blow up ( turbo or normally aspirated) because they get to a lean mixture condition. Adding a turbo makes this even more of an issue. For that matter, anything that increases horsepower makes fuel delivery very important. So, fuel injection would be my choice over a carb on this subject. I would also install an air fuel meter. You would also need to deal with the great deal of increased heat that a turbo creates. Both to your oil and probably even your air fuel mixture. Cooling the air fuel mixture can be done with and intercooler. The increase in oil temps would be a challenge to your oil cooler and oil delivery system. You may also need to deal with the fact that when you shut off the engine, all that hot oil from your turbo will drain down to your engine , thus increasing oil temps after shut down. The most reliable automotive turbo's use both oil and engine coolant to keep the turbo cool. You also need a reliable way to regulate the waste gate. Or in other words you have to be able to keep the turbo from overboosting. Again, I believe you need to monitor this with a guage. If not you will never be able to keep head gaskets on your engine. You would also burn holes in the tops of your pistons, burn valves and so on and so on. Speaking of valves, my experience leads me to believe that you would need to change the exhaust valves on your engine as well , in order to deal with the increased temps of combustion. This goes back to the idea of starting with a reliable engine turbo combination. I could go on and on with the subject of turbo charging. I would also say that I think it is the cheapest and best way to get more ponies and torque out of an engine. I also would guess that there are people on this list that know 10 times more then me on turbo charging. But I qualify my information with the years I spent experimenting with turbo in automobiles and that I was able to take a 2.2 four cylinder engine of 140 horsepower and develop a reliable dyno tested 360 HP with incredible amounts of torque. But, I did this using a tried and tested engine and turbo combination. I was able to take advantage of computerized controls for fuel delivery and waste gate controls. I was able to write my own computerized fuel tables and timing curves to assure air fuel mixture at various RPM ranges. This was all done via Engine ECU and interfacing a laptop computer. And the whole system seems a little complex for a KR2. I also need to mention that I struggled with all the items mentioned above. No big deal when on the ground ( ok maybe a few towing bills and head gaskets and parts and such) but I sure wouldn't want to have those issues in the air. I would still like to turbo an engine for my KR2. I am still unsure of the best, lightest and most reliable way to do it. Maybe I will start with some Rev Master turbo parts and go from there. Jeff York KR-2 Flying N839BG Home page http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 Email jeffyork40@qx.net ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:30:08 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Smith Subject: Re: KR> cutting sponge foam To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051123173008.51287.qmail@web81704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Oscar Zuniga wrote: Just working on repairing the seat back on the Pietenpol and thought I'd post a tip that has been mentioned before but it works so well it's worth repeating. When cutting sponge foam such as is used for upholstery and cushions, use an electric knife. The one I use is one that came with a bread slicing setup, but most any electric knife will work. It cuts straight and clean through foams, unlike trying to use a knife or scissors. Mark your line on the foam with a Sharpie and just let the knife ease through. It'll cut as straight as you can mark a line with a ruler, or follow curves as needed. Be sure to rinse off the knife blades before you put the knife away, or your whole wheat bread will be "fortified" with foam dust next time you slice some ;o) Thanks Omar!!!! That was just the information I needed!! I was wondering how I was going to do that. I love the KRNET! Ron Smith Kr2ssxl Cypress Ca U.S.A. mercedesmann@yahoo.com http://ronsmith.myphotoalbum.com/albums.php --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 18:33:02 +0100 From: "Cris." Subject: Re: KR> cutting sponge foam To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Omar? How many wives do you have? :-) C. 2005/11/23, Ron Smith : > > > > Oscar Zuniga wrote: > Just working on repairing the seat back on the Pietenpol and thought I'd > post a tip that has been mentioned before but it works so well it's worth > repeating. > > When cutting sponge foam such as is used for upholstery and cushions, use > an > electric knife. The one I use is one that came with a bread slicing setup, > but most any electric knife will work. It cuts straight and clean through > foams, unlike trying to use a knife or scissors. Mark your line on the > foam > with a Sharpie and just let the knife ease through. It'll cut as straight > as you can mark a line with a ruler, or follow curves as needed. > > Be sure to rinse off the knife blades before you put the knife away, or > your > whole wheat bread will be "fortified" with foam dust next time you slice > some ;o) > > Thanks Omar!!!! > > That was just the information I needed!! I was wondering how I was going > to do that. I love the KRNET! > > > > Ron Smith > Kr2ssxl > Cypress Ca U.S.A. > mercedesmann@yahoo.com > http://ronsmith.myphotoalbum.com/albums.php > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Land the airplane, rubber side down, main wheels first. ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:21:47 -0500 From: Subject: Re: KR> Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000c01c5f05a$d6c1dfc0$6464a8c0@server> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Ok, Now this is along the lines of my interest. I would like to keep up with the results of your efforts and the specifications of the modifications you are performing. Do you have a website that you will be posting results and pics to? I would also be interested in your injection system. How much ect? Jeff York KR-2 Flying N839BG Home page http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 Email jeffyork40@qx.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronald R.Eason" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 12:18 PM Subject: RE: KR> Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents > I am turbo charging my VW/Rayjay Happi variant. I have added to the design a > larger Oil cooler, wastegate, pop-off valve and ECU controlled fuel > injection configured and PC programmable MAP. The pop off valve and > wastegate have special selected springs. I have also added ceramic coatings > to the combustion chamber, Nicke aluminum cylinders and poly coated > bearings. All investments are made and I will assemble the engine after I > finish the airplane. > > By the way I have some fuel injection manifolds for a 2180 for sale if > anyone is interested. > > Ronald R. Eason Sr. > President / CEO > Ph: 816-468-4091 > Fax: 816-468-5465 > http://www.jrl-engineering.com > Our Attitude Makes The Difference! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf > Of jeffyork40@qx.net > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 4:36 PM > To: KRnet > Subject: Re: KR> Geared vs direct drive Turbo & my 2 cents > > I love this subject and have contemplated turbo charging my 2180 for quite > some time. I feel I have extensive knowledge of turbo charging systems as I > have done extensive amounts of turbo and turbo engine work on automobile > applications. > > However, and not to slight anyone here, I don't think I would ever consider > taking a turbo from one application and believe I could bolt it to my VW > 2180 or a Corvair engine and expect success. > > I cut my teeth in turbo experimenting with automobiles. I will also credit > much of the knowledge I gained came from many individuals involved in the > Shelby Dodge Auto Clubs. Here is what I learned. Or, I could just cut to the > finish and suggest that if you want to turbo your airplane, start with a > proven turbo and engine application and then make minor modifications as you > need. But back to what I learned. > > With a turbo several things are critical to it's success. > I would say that the most important is proper air fuel ratio delivery and > the ability to monitor that. In an aircraft , this would be highly critical. > I think more engines blow up ( turbo or normally aspirated) because they get > to a lean mixture condition. Adding a turbo makes this even more of an > issue. For that matter, anything that increases horsepower makes fuel > delivery very important. So, fuel injection would be my choice over a carb > on this subject. I would also install an air fuel meter. > > You would also need to deal with the great deal of increased heat that a > turbo creates. Both to your oil and probably even your air fuel mixture. > Cooling the air fuel mixture can be done with and intercooler. The increase > in oil temps would be a challenge to your oil cooler and oil delivery > system. You may also need to deal with the fact that when you shut off the > engine, all that hot oil from your turbo will drain down to your engine , > thus increasing oil temps after shut down. The most reliable automotive > turbo's use both oil and engine coolant to keep the turbo cool. > > You also need a reliable way to regulate the waste gate. Or in other words > you have to be able to keep the turbo from overboosting. Again, I believe > you need to monitor this with a guage. If not you will never be able to keep > head gaskets on your engine. You would also burn holes in the tops of your > pistons, burn valves and so on and so on. Speaking of valves, my experience > leads me to believe that you would need to change the exhaust valves on your > engine as well , in order to deal with the increased temps of combustion. > This goes back to the idea of starting with a reliable engine turbo > combination. > > I could go on and on with the subject of turbo charging. I would also say > that I think it is the cheapest and best way to get more ponies and torque > out of an engine. I also would guess that there are people on this list that > know 10 times more then me on turbo charging. But I qualify my information > with the years I spent experimenting with turbo in automobiles and that I > was able to take a 2.2 four cylinder engine of 140 horsepower and develop a > reliable dyno tested 360 HP with incredible amounts of torque. But, I did > this using a tried and tested engine and turbo combination. I was able to > take advantage of computerized controls for fuel delivery and waste gate > controls. I was able to write my own computerized fuel tables and timing > curves to assure air fuel mixture at various RPM ranges. This was all done > via Engine ECU and interfacing a laptop computer. And the whole system seems > a little complex for a KR2. I also need to mention that I struggled with all > the items mentioned above. No big deal when on the ground ( ok maybe a few > towing bills and head gaskets and parts and such) but I sure wouldn't want > to have those issues in the air. > > I would still like to turbo an engine for my KR2. I am still unsure of the > best, lightest and most reliable way to do it. Maybe I will start with some > Rev Master turbo parts and go from there. > > Jeff York > KR-2 Flying > N839BG > Home page http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/ > My KR-2 http://web.qx.net/jeffyork40/Airplane/ to see my KR-2 > Email jeffyork40@qx.net > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:25:03 -0600 From: Larry&Sallie Flesner Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20051123122401.02759808@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed At 06:22 AM 11/23/2005, you wrote: >I sure wish Santa could bring me a constant speed prop for Christmas. :-) > >Larry does anyone make one for the O-200??? > >Orma ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ There may be but I'm sure Santa couldn't afford it ! :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:17:59 -0500 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051123.152733.4028.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Please don't, it may be too soft, Virg On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 00:52:09 +1000 jodel@alphalink.com.au writes: > Hi all > just a ? that has probibly been answered befor in regards to the > WAF. > Has anyone used stanless steel in say marin grade stanless. I'm > gesing that > the stanless would be strong enought or would it need to be resized > to give > the same strenght as the 4130 steel. > > Albert. > > > > > On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:22:07 -0500, Orma wrote > > I sure wish Santa could bring me a constant speed prop for > > Christmas. :-) > > > > Larry does anyone make one for the O-200??? > > > > Orma > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from > KRnet, > > send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet > info > > at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > ___________________________________________________ > Alphalink WebMail - http://webmail.alphalink.com.au > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:46:01 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: Re: KR> Prop position on C 90 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051123.124630.10937.26934@webmail49.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain The prop Would typically be in the same plane as the rod journals on the C series engines. When you have a cylinder at TDC, the prop should be horizontal. If you still have a vibration, swap it 180 degrees. If the problem still persists, you might want to take it back to the prop shop. Note that some metal props (Mostly MacCauley Met-L-Prop) have an RPM restriction on certain engines at certain RPMs, usually around 2150 - 2300, due to harmonics. You might want to research your prop/engine combination. The prop shop should also have information on engine/prop combination restrictions. Jeff Scott -- "L. D. Mueller" wrote: Hey everyone: does anyone know at what position a metal prop should be relative to cylinder number and stroke? I have an overhauled prop reinstalled on a C 90 that has a little vibration @2200. The prop is true and tracks right on. It didn't have this vibration before. So I think I need to reposition it. Anyone want to give it a whirl? ; - ) Thanks L. D. Mueller 521 North Madison St. Cuba City, WI 53807 _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 21:00:24 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: Re: KR> performance numbers? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051123.130124.10937.27071@webmail49.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain I had dinner with the CEO of Vari-Prop at Copperstate. He is developing an electric constant speed prop that will fly on an O-200 and hopes to have it on the market by next summer. Actually, his card says 80 - 300 HP, gear, belt and direct drive engines. I think the entry price was around $6000. I respectfully hid my check book and declined his offer. If one of of you has $6K stashed away that you want to experiment with, I'll be glad to hook you up with him. This may also apply to some of the VW and Corvair guys as well. Jeff Scott -- Larry&Sallie Flesner wrote: At 06:22 AM 11/23/2005, you wrote: >I sure wish Santa could bring me a constant speed prop for Christmas. :-) > >Larry does anyone make one for the O-200??? > >Orma ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ There may be but I'm sure Santa couldn't afford it ! :-) Larry Flesner _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 480 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================