From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 530 Date: 12/28/2005 3:33:59 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: 2005 KR Planes (David Kopanski) 2. R?f. : RE: R?f. : Re: KR> Corvair ignition (Serge VIDAL) 3. R?f. : KR> Corvair Ignition (Serge VIDAL) 4. R?f. : Re: R?f. : KR> Serge's ignition (Serge VIDAL) 5. Ignitions with no retard (Dan Heath) 6. Re: one more flight, but only ONE more landing... (Jerry Mahurin) 7. R?f. : KR> Ignitions with no retard (Serge VIDAL) 8. Timing retard (Colin Rainey) 9. Landing lights/Wingtips (Dana Overall) 10. Re: 2005 KR Planes (JIM RALEIGH) 11. Re: Dan and Jerry KR visit... (Mark Langford) 12. Hey Kip (Dana Overall) 13. Newbie (John Kruckeberg) 14. RE: Newbie (Stephen Teate) 15. RE: Newbie (John Kruckeberg) 16. Re: Newbie (Mark Langford) 17. Re: 2005 KR Planes (Larry&Sallie Flesner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 06:11:36 -0000 From: "David Kopanski" Subject: RE: KR> 2005 KR Planes To: , "KRnet" Message-ID: <1385CC28637F584DA11E5B3F824EF18803F29294@lonexch400.kbrsat.kbr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Great way of sending and presenting pictures. What program or service did you use to compile them? David Kopanski Kirkuk, Iraq -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Joachim Saupe Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:22 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> 2005 KR Planes Mark, the pictures I took are at the following: http://photos.yahoo.com/jsaupe Feel free to use those also. Joachim > [Original Message] > From: Mark Jones > To: KRnet > Date: 12/27/2005 6:11:50 PM > Subject: Re: KR> 2005 KR Planes > > I got them, Glover had the correct link. I have linked them correctly now on > my web page. Here is the link: > http://home.pcisys.net/~elmiller/gathering05.html > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my NEW > KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at www.flykr2s.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry&Sallie Flesner" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:58 PM > Subject: Re: KR> 2005 KR Planes > > > > > > > > I seem to recall that Jack Cooper had those photos. Maybe, I think, could > > be wrong, not sure,...................................... > > > > Larry Flesner > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail, including any attached files, may contain confidential and privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, use, distribution, or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive information for the intended recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this message. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:42:05 +0100 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : RE: R?f. : Re: KR> Corvair ignition To: jsaupe6848@earthlink.net, KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Joachim, I have no idea what it is, but it is definitely not electromechanical, since it makes no noise whatsoever. I call it a "relay" since I don't know of a better word, and that is basically what it does: open and close the contact to the coils when the magnetic pick-up tells it to. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Joachim Saupe" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 27/12/2005 21:17 Veuillez répondre à jsaupe6848; Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 27/12/2005 21:17 Pour : "KRnet" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : RE: Réf. : Re: KR> Corvair ignition Serge, <> That's not an electro/mechanical relay, is it? At 3000 rpm it would have to cycle at 50 Hz! I guess that's possible and the contacts would wear just like an old fashioned ignition system. Joachim _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 11:29:53 +0100 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : KR> Corvair Ignition To: brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net, KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thank you, Colin, for that very useful information. Your E-mai taught me quite a few things, and I will definitely keep it for future reference. How exactly do distributors retard the timing for detonation control? Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Colin Rainey" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 12/28/2005 04:01 AM Veuillez répondre à brokerpilot96ta; Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 12/28/2005 03:59 AM Pour : krnet@mylist.net cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> Corvair Ignition Serge and Dene I do not argue that your ignition system is simple and reliable. I work on those style ignition systems everyday. Virtually all new cars have a crank and cam trigger magnetic pickup system on them, one way or the other. I have not seen a distributor in a vehicle in a few years now. Only one problem that I see is, no spark retard system built in. ALL modern ignition systems operate with the computer managing the timing based on inputs from several sensors which give the computer engine load and demand information, ie: TPS, MAP, MAF, O2, CTS, ACT, Cam and Crank sensors. Your system works fine as long as the octane of the fuel is properly matched to the engine, AND engine temperatures are kept in a more restrictive range of operation. Remember, motorcycles have tapered walls most of the them that build and relieve compression as they travel up and down. Auto engines do not. When accelerating from cruise rpms, ALL auto engines retard the timing for detonation control, and a dvance as the rpm begins to level back out. In your system, you have fixed timing advance, which is great when initially accelerating, but part throttle acceleration can cause some real problems unless the advance is not "peak" for the engine. Then the engine runs good, but produces less horsepower than is optimal. If timing is set to this optimum setting, then caution with temps and operating conditions must be observed, or detonation is surely a result. This is why aviation engines must use a richer than required fuel mixture to assist in cooling and detonation protection. To extract peak power, one must be able to control timing in BOTH directions, and set it accordingly. Hence my comments about those not committed to something else will find it far easier to set the engine up and get the timing correct with the original distributor, just rebuilt, and updated with electronic pickup instead of points. Adjustments are much easier, and base timing can be set and adjus ted as necessary to fine tune for a particular application. The ignition system process is known in the auto repair world as "Waste Fire Ignition" where the coil fires companion cylinders at the same time, one on compression stroke the other on exhaust. This also does a small part in helping clean the emissions, getting a second chance to ignite the unburned fuel prior to leaving the cylinder. It simplifies the timing curve that must be programmed into the PCM and eliminates parts count. Down side is if a plug wire goes bad, it will go to ground somewhere else and if it can't, it will burn out the coil. Secondly, Dene you were WRONG when you said a 5 cyl can just run one half of a coil for the odd cylinder! This is a big NO NO with this style system. The coil is powered at only one set of terminals, power and ground. Therefore, you MUST have two plugs wires going to two plugs, PROPERLY GROUNDED AS IN INSTALLED in order to not damage this system. Failure to do so will result in the coil being damaged! These coils also fire much hotter in KV then older coils, so plugs need to be of newer design, RFI for noise cancellation, and gaps adjusted appropriately for the compression ratio, ignition. I am starting with .035 gap, but I will also try a set gapped at .045 since I am using a hotter late model coil, and electronic pickup, and no ballast resistor in my power lead to the coil. My electronic ignition does not require a ballast resistor, so I can eliminate one more point of failure, common to the old ignition system. Fly what you are comfortable with and feel safe behind. But as I have said before, if you don't fully understand a system on your plane, learn about it, and get to know it, or replace it something you do know. Otherwise you are flying in the dark, or kinda with blindfolds. My remarks about sticking with the stock system, come from spending time modifying our KR to a better engine with a known quantity, and IT STILL IS TAKING TOO LONG. The more mods the longer the road... Colin Rainey brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 11:38:46 +0100 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : Re: R?f. : KR> Serge's ignition To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, Dene. Now that you mention it, I'm pretty sure these ignition switches are double pole, although I can't remember how they are wired. I must dig out that wiring diagram. I always knew Rob was a daring man! But I find hard to don't believe that battery story, because that is only a 7.2 amps battery, and coils must take a serious drain! In my experience, as soon as the battery voltage drops, the engine is much harder to start, too. Anyway, as soon as I restart the engine, I plan to run a test on ground to see what the situation is with the dual ignition. If I don't get at least 20 minutes on battery only, then I will think of upgrading the battery. Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "AVLEC" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 12/27/2005 09:10 PM Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 12/27/2005 09:02 PM Pour : "KRnet" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : Re: Réf. : KR> Serge's ignition Hi Serge I spoke to Rob this morning and he says that he had it wired like that all the time (through a double pole switch). The only thing I would have changed in his case would have been to install a second battery so that the 12V supply could be changed out as well. When you talk about a relay, it is really a solid state device and not an electro mechanical relay.That ignition must be very light on power, he says that he ran the motor without an alternator for the first 100hrs or so without ever recharging the battery! Just how accurate his memory is I don't know. His address is: 158 Villiers Road Walmer Port Elizabeth 6056. Regards Dene Collett KR2SRT builder South africa Whisper assembler See: www.whisperaircraft.com mailto: avlec@telkomsa.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serge VIDAL" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 11:02 Subject: Réf. : KR> Serge's ignition Hi, Dene. Yes, that is a very interesting thought indeed, and very seducing too. Although I won't go that route at this stage, because my electrical system has not been built so as to be modified easily. There are two of these fancy aircraft connectors with crimped pins to go through... (leftovers from the Rooivalk attack helicopter development program!) I can see no reason why this electronic ignition system won't work with a six cylinders. I would strongly recommend that you install two sets of pick-ups (after all, we don't know how well these components age), but I agree one spark plug per cylinder and one set of coils should do the trick. By the way, have you got a mail address for Rob Van der Merwe? Happy new year, Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "AVLEC" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem.com@mylist.net 24/12/2005 12:34 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 24/12/2005 12:25 Pour : "KRnet" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> Serge's ignition Hi Serge I was just thinking about your primary ignition system (the one with the centrifugal advance). You actually have two seperate systems there which are joined by one common mode of failure, the switch. If you changed the switch to a double pole switch with two seperate positive supplies and a seperate positive supply from the switch to each "system" you will in effect have a seperate ignition system for each pair of cylinders. I suppose the same goes for your secondary ignition. I don't know how well the plane will fly on two cylinders but I suppose that is better than none at all. If anything it will improve your glide slope! I plan on using an identical system on my corvair 3100 , only mine will have an extra pickup, an extra amplifier and an extra coil. The pickups will just have to be arranged 120 deg apart in stead of 180 and it should work just fine. I don't think I will even install a secondary ignition as you have because I think the KR will be able to stay in the air and maintain altitude just fine on four cylinders should I lose one ignition. Now to find a triple pole toggle switch if there is such a thing. To all, have a merry christmas and a prosperous new year. PS. Steve from Zambia is now living here in Port Elizabeth and has been in contact with me for the past three weeks. I had a brew with him yesterday and he says Hi to all on the list. As soon as he has his computer set up and an internet connection he will join us on the list. Regards Dene Collett KR2SRT builder South africa Whisper assembler See: www.whisperaircraft.com mailto: avlec@telkomsa.net _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 06:04:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Ignitions with no retard To: Message-ID: <43B27143.000005.03496@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" How can you start an engine that does not have a retard built into the ignition, unless you have two of them and one is retarded for starting. I know that the electronic ignition system that we have from GPASC, states very emphatically, that it is not to be used for starting. We are using a mag also. The mag has a retard system for starting. Our wiring will not allow the starter to turn if the electronic switch is on. After the engine starts, we flip on the electronic, which must not be operated below 600 RPM. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 08:13:56 -0500 From: Jerry Mahurin Subject: Re: KR> one more flight, but only ONE more landing... To: KRnet Message-ID: <3812d7480512280513y3d97df23k1bfde240824a8e54@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 ...........yep Mark you are right about a few more MPH hiding in the forward CG. With a forward CG you always have to carry a little up elevator for level flight; therefore more drag and lower speed. Just got the email from Dan about yer visit............. I may be working on Sunday...........so hope the plans are for Saturday...... Later, On 12/27/05, Mark Langford wrote: > > NetHeads, > > Today was gorgeous, at least from the ground. When I checked the wind > before lunch it was something like "light and variable". By the time > I got to the airport, it was a lot different, but was only 10 knots or > so, so I figured I could handle that. So off I went...and it was the > roughest ride so far! I put two g's on the meter just climbing out, > but once I got to 4000' everything smoothed out. I decided right then > that I wasn't coming back until it was almost too dark to see, hoping > things would calm down a bit. I flew around in a 40 mile radius or > so, and throttled back to conserve fuel, following county roads to see where they go, and that kind of > thing. I needed some slow flight practice anyway. : ) > > I kept checking the AWOS and hearing stuff like 15k winds, gusting to > 18k, and that's a ninety degree crosswind at my airport. I didn't > need an altimeter, because any time I got below 4000', it was like > sailing in high seas. While flying I determined that I had about a > 40k wind to contend with at altitude, so getting in the pattern was > interesting, without getting blown way off course. Anyway, things had > indeed calmed down somewhat on the ground at sunset, and I landed on > that short, narrow strip like I'd been doing it all my life, > uneventfully. Today's was the longest flight yet, covering 2.8 hours, > and burning 12.3 gallons start to finish. I'm up to 108 hours on the > plane, and those are flying hours, since the EIS doesn't count them > unless I'm turning at least 1200 rpm (user programmable). > > I definitely need to slide my CG aft or change the horizontal > stabilizer incidence. The slowest I could trim for hands off was 110 > mph @ 2200 rpm. That was at 6000', burning 2.4 gallons per hour (fuel > flow meter is calibrated now). Slower than that and I had to hold a > little back pressure on it. I'm sure that's way out of the drag > bucket too. My plane operates only in the top quarter of the trim > indicator's range, so that's not a surprise. Maybe there are a few > MPH's hiding in there. I guess it's time to do some more serious > flight testing... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > -- Jerry Mahurin - aka - KRJerry EAA# 0034283 Lugoff, SC 29078 ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:20:15 +0100 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : KR> Ignitions with no retard To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dan, My system has got a retard built in for starting. It is mechanical, and works with centrifugal force, and it is a ON-OFF type system: either the engine is not running, and there is full retard; or the engine is running, and there is no retard. For reasons that have to do with mechanical constraints, only one of my two ignitions has this system, and therefore, I can start the engine only on Ignition 1. If I try to start on Ignition 2, the engine will kick back. In short, my Ignition 2 is similar to yours: useable only after start. But this is not what Colin was referring to. He says that once the engine is turning, the advance is fixed, which is not ideal, because the engine should adjust the advance timing according to the RPM and acceleration. Serge "Dan Heath" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 12/28/2005 12:04 PM Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 12/28/2005 12:04 PM Pour : cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> Ignitions with no retard How can you start an engine that does not have a retard built into the ignition, unless you have two of them and one is retarded for starting. I know that the electronic ignition system that we have from GPASC, states very emphatically, that it is not to be used for starting. We are using a mag also. The mag has a retard system for starting. Our wiring will not allow the starter to turn if the electronic switch is on. After the engine starts, we flip on the electronic, which must not be operated below 600 RPM. See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building is OVER. Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:29:57 -0500 From: "Colin Rainey" Subject: KR> Timing retard To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <410-2200512328152957660@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Serge and Dan You are correct Serge, the retard I am referring to is the retard AFTER the engine is running, especially at rpm. Virtually all systems start at some "base" setting, and if this is too high, hard start. If it is just base timing low, then easy starting. When cranking a computer controlled engine with the scanner hooked up, you can watch the computer actually retard the timing to 20 degrees ATDC to allow for second rotation start. As soon as the engine gets over 400-600 rpm, depending on design the computer will advance to around 28 to 34 degrees usually, just like the Great Plains, and will hold back the timing from there until closed loop or hot running mode, at which time it will utilize full spark advance programming from there. Why mention all this? What does this have to do with a KR or Corvair? Well, for every process that we now know to be electronic, it once was performed mechanically. Therefore, everything that I have mentioned that the computer does now, was handled by a mechanical device in the Corvair engines of the past. What my particular installation is attempting to do is to update with modern parts, the mechanical processes that Chevrolet developed for the engine, that were so successful, so that my airplane engine will run as well as the car engine did, just spinning a prop. The distributor was equipped with mechanical spark advance through the use of weights attached to the breaker plate under the points. These centrifugal weights would sling out causing the plate to "advance" the timing, usually between 12 and 14 degrees, depending on the strength of the springs and the actual weights. This advance is rpm dependent, and will occur every time at a given rpm. Base timing was usually set somewhere between 4 and 8 degrees which gives a total MECHANICAL advance of 16 on the low side to 22 degrees on the high side. Vacuum advance was used to advance the engine the final 10 to 14 degrees for best performance. This advance only occurs when the rpms are more constant, deceleration, and at idle. Just like the mechanical advance, it is not present when cranking, so the engine only cranks on base timing. When accelerating vacuum advance is lost, and the timing retards to mechanical advance only to prevent detonation, since the combustion chamber temperature will spike due to the sudden introduction of all that air. You will notice that fixed timing systems try to compromise between best performance, and detonation protection with settings around 26 to 28 degrees max. Problem: aviation carbs have no hookups for vacuum signals on their carbs. This is the reason I am using a down draft Rochester Monojet carb. It has both ported (vacuum on acceleration only) and manifold vacuum (vacuum at constant rpm). If you do not use vacuum advance , then you will have to recurve your distributor like WW does, and watch your temps closely. You will not be able to allow your engine to get as hot as the car did due to the effect on pre-ignition and detonation that this has, and you will almost assuredly have to use 100LL. Premium fuel will not give enough detonation protection. Remember, these engines were designed when 100 octane fuel (with lead) was common at the pump, and were designed for its use. When the lead went away, timing had to better controlled, some cars even equipped with spark retard modules, and compression ratios dropped until advancements were made it overall computer/engine control. Oh that "relay" is probably a simple transistor module triggering the coil, which is what most electronic ignitions use. The other parts of the ignition module handle ignition impulse modification if needed for computer use, and advance if desired by the designer. Since it is set up as an on/off system, it is perfectly compatible with the computer, where the trigger from say a point set tends to linger to a computer which makes it more like an AC wave, instead of the needed digital wave (square wave), but that is all another story... Back to sanding my cowling.... Colin Rainey brokerpilot96ta@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:13:06 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" Subject: KR> Landing lights/Wingtips To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Just a heads up from Creativair's website http://www.creativair.com/cva/ Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" http://rvflying.tripod.com _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:47:54 -0600 From: "JIM RALEIGH" Subject: Re: KR> 2005 KR Planes To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003301c60bdf$376646a0$a7c91b45@HPAuthorizedCustomer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark I have been studying your canopy on your home page. I am building one similar except that the front bar will go all the way across and will form a roll bar. I formed it out of 5 lays of 1/8 in ac plywood 3" wide. My question is fastening it to the canopy(the clear Part) did you just epoxy it? did you roughen it beforehand? also what tool did you cut the plastic with? did you have any trouble with cracking the plexiglass? Jim raleigh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net (E-mail)" Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:52 AM Subject: KR> 2005 KR Planes > There was a web link showing the 2005 KR planes in attendance. These > were some nice photos and I can not remember who's link it was. It does not seem to be working any longer. Here is the link I have: http://krfly.no-ip.org/gathering05.html I would like to get this link working again or if anyone saved the photos, please send them to me so I can put them back on my web site. Mark Langford, are you going to do a 2005 photo addition to the KR Net? Too busy flying to get er done? I understand plus I envy you!!!! > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > Visit my "NEW" KR CorvAIRCRAFT web site: http://www.flykr2s.com > Email: mailto:flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:55:13 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR>Dan and Jerry KR visit... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <029801c60bf0$fff9b7d0$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Jerry Mahurin wrote: > Just got the email from Dan about yer visit............. Yep, right now I'm planning on coming up on Saturday, but if the weather guessers are correct, Friday might be better. I'll have to wait until we get a little closer to decide. Anybody else that wants to drive in or fly in to KCUB in Columbia, SC is welcome to it. Dan says he knows where there's some good BBQ for lunch. Other KR pilots in need of an excuse to fly somewhere are cordially invited. I reserve the right to pick the day though, and I'll do that on Thursday. The goal will be to give the plane a good looking over and see if we can find anything wrong with it before first flight... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 16:25:29 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" Subject: KR> Hey Kip To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sorry gang but I don't have Kip's address here at work................Kip, email me offline.........you know what I need for my airplane:-) Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:25:33 -0800 (PST) From: John Kruckeberg Subject: KR> Newbie To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20051228212533.28185.qmail@web31114.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 OK fellas, I have been trolling this forum as well as the Dragonfly and Sonerai mailing list trying to decide what I want to build. I would like something that is side by side and fairly easy to build. I want something that flies well and want be too hard to transition from a cessna 150 to. More than likely it will be vw powerd. I like the corvair engines but like the ability to have two separate ignition systems on the vw engine. I am about 6' and weigh 205. I have narrowed the choice down to either a kr2, or a sonerai 2ls, or a dragonfly. Since I want a side by side plane I am leaning more to the kr or the dragonfly. My main question is how much room is availible in the kr2s. Can I fit comfortably with another passenger? After reading about the dragonfly they say it has about as much shoulder room as a 172 and enough leg room for a 6' 6" pilot. I would rather have a plane with conventional styling and handling charactoristics and that is why I am posting here. What kind of usefull load would I have with a to plans built kr2s and the 75hp vw engine? Well we will start with this and see what kind of replys I get and go from there. I would love to fly down to SC this weekend to meet some of you and see some krs in person but my 150 is down for some repairs. --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 15:46:24 -0600 From: "Stephen Teate" Subject: RE: KR> Newbie To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <98DAC793BA09104DA961CAFAA33C795806697C@ccs-svr1.CCS.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Welcome to the board John. You have quite a list of questions and I will give you my 2 cents worth on a couple of them. I am 6'-5", 210 lbs. and my 2S is widened and lengthened. The structure of the KRs easily allows this although it means stock factory components can no longer be used. A 2S with two real people aboard and 75 HP is a little marginal on power. Even though I am going water cooled don't discount the Corvairs, dual ignition is available. Good luck, Stephen steate@compositecooling.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of John Kruckeberg Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:26 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Newbie OK fellas, I have been trolling this forum as well as the Dragonfly and Sonerai mailing list trying to decide what I want to build. I would like something that is side by side and fairly easy to build. I want something that flies well and want be too hard to transition from a cessna 150 to. More than likely it will be vw powerd. I like the corvair engines but like the ability to have two separate ignition systems on the vw engine. I am about 6' and weigh 205. I have narrowed the choice down to either a kr2, or a sonerai 2ls, or a dragonfly. Since I want a side by side plane I am leaning more to the kr or the dragonfly. My main question is how much room is availible in the kr2s. Can I fit comfortably with another passenger? After reading about the dragonfly they say it has about as much shoulder room as a 172 and enough leg room for a 6' 6" pilot. I would rather have a plane with conventional styling and handling charactoristics and that is why I am posting here. What kind of usefull load would I have with a to plans built kr2s and the 75hp vw engine? Well we will start with this and see what kind of replys I get and go from there. I would love to fly down to SC this weekend to meet some of you and see some krs in person but my 150 is down for some repairs. --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:51:38 -0800 (PST) From: John Kruckeberg Subject: RE: KR> Newbie To: KRnet Message-ID: <20051228215138.84265.qmail@web31105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Is there someone that is doing the machineing to the corvair heads to allow two plugs? Stephen Teate wrote: Welcome to the board John. You have quite a list of questions and I will give you my 2 cents worth on a couple of them. I am 6'-5", 210 lbs. and my 2S is widened and lengthened. The structure of the KRs easily allows this although it means stock factory components can no longer be used. A 2S with two real people aboard and 75 HP is a little marginal on power. Even though I am going water cooled don't discount the Corvairs, dual ignition is available. Good luck, Stephen steate@compositecooling.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of John Kruckeberg Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:26 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Newbie OK fellas, I have been trolling this forum as well as the Dragonfly and Sonerai mailing list trying to decide what I want to build. I would like something that is side by side and fairly easy to build. I want something that flies well and want be too hard to transition from a cessna 150 to. More than likely it will be vw powerd. I like the corvair engines but like the ability to have two separate ignition systems on the vw engine. I am about 6' and weigh 205. I have narrowed the choice down to either a kr2, or a sonerai 2ls, or a dragonfly. Since I want a side by side plane I am leaning more to the kr or the dragonfly. My main question is how much room is availible in the kr2s. Can I fit comfortably with another passenger? After reading about the dragonfly they say it has about as much shoulder room as a 172 and enough leg room for a 6' 6" pilot. I would rather have a plane with conventional styling and handling charactoristics and that is why I am posting here. What kind of usefull load would I have with a to plans built kr2s and the 75hp vw engine? Well we will start with this and see what kind of replys I get and go from there. I would love to fly down to SC this weekend to meet some of you and see some krs in person but my 150 is down for some repairs. --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 16:01:53 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Newbie To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <02b401c60bfa$5000b130$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" John Kruckeberg > Is there someone that is doing the machineing to the corvair heads to allow two plugs? That can be done, but nobody bothers. Spark plugs almost never fail (although they have been known to blow out of the hole), and even if it does, it's just an annoyance when you have five more cylinders left. Steve Makish flew home on five cylinders in his KR and almost didn't notice! Try that with a VW. What most people run is a dual point distributor with the two sets of points separated, and two separate coils joined by an MSD coil switcher. I have what I call "the almost totally redundant fuel and ignition system", and it hasn't failed me yet. There are some details at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/electrical/ . I think most VW guys wish they had a Corvair, because it doesn't weigh that much more, but has a lot more power than a VW. The KR is hard to beat from a modification standpoint, and is almost certainly the cheapest way to go so fast. More biased opinions are at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kopinion.html ... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 17:30:03 -0600 From: Larry&Sallie Flesner Subject: Re: KR> 2005 KR Planes To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.0.20051228172339.03454f20@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed At 12:47 PM 12/28/2005, you wrote: >Mark I have been studying your canopy on your home page. I am building >one similar except that the front bar will go all the way across and >will form a roll bar. I formed it out of 5 lays of 1/8 in ac plywood 3" >wide. My question is fastening it to the canopy(the clear Part) did you >just epoxy it? did you roughen it beforehand? also what tool did you >cut the plastic with? did you have any trouble with cracking the >plexiglass? Jim raleigh +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jim, For lack of a better picture check out: http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flesner/02092588.jpg I formed the front and rear bows from strips of ply and fiberglass. I attached the windshield directly to the bow with epoxy / flox and then added glass strips over the top and down on to the sides for strength and streamlining. Rough up the glass anywhere you will be using epoxy. I think I used 100 grit paper. To cut I used a dremel tool with a fiberglass reinforced cutting blade. Go slow as you will be more melting then cutting. Use eye protection. To get a straight line cut use something like a used hacksaw blade and hold the smooth side of the blade on the cut line. Bias the cutting wheel VERY LIGHTLY against the blade and you can cut a perfectly straight line. Good luck............ Larry Flesner ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 530 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================