From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 68 Date: 2/12/2005 9:01:28 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: A&P CHECKLIST (Brian Kraut) 2. Re: KR-2S Bent Spars and AS504x (Sean Caranna) 3. Re: bending radius (Ronald Metcalf) 4. Certificated KR-2S list by FAA (Dubi Gefen) 5. Re: Certificated KR-2S list by FAA (larry flesner) 6. Re: Certificated KR-2S list by FAA (Richard Green) 7. Re: Certificated KR-2S list by FAA (larry flesner) 8. Re: Certificated KR-2S list by FAA (Kenneth B. Jones) 9. Re: Certificated KR-2S list by FAA (Orma) 10. Re: Certificated KR-2S list by FAA (Dan Heath) 11. Re: Certificated KR-2S list by FAA (Mark Jones) 12. Re: Certificated KR-2S list by FAA (Mark Jones) 13. (no subject) (Bill Sadler) 14. bolt size KR (Bill Sadler) 15. KR no subject (Bill Sadler) 16. Re: bolt size KR (Dan Heath) 17. Re: bolt size KR (Mark Langford) 18. Re: Certificated KR-2S list by FAA (larry flesner) 19. RE: C-GDPU has finally become a airplane today (wcrawfor@cmhc-schl.gc.ca) 20. KR NO SUBJECT (Bill Sadler) 21. Re: vw reliability (Ivan & Ilse Miller) 22. CG question re: a light KR2S (Eric Anderson) 23. Re: CG question re: a light KR2S (Dan Heath) 24. Re: CG question re: a light KR2S (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 25. Re: bolt size KR (Mark Langford) 26. Re: vw reliability (Orma) 27. Re: bolt size KR (Dan Heath) 28. Re: bending radius (Scott Cable) 29. Re: CG question re: a light KR2S (Scott Cable) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 00:04:00 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> A&P CHECKLIST To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Not sure if this is what you are after or not, but for the condition inspection your operating limitations will state that it needs to be inspected in accordance with the scope and detail of Appendix D of FAR part 43. If there is some other type of checklist it is most likely something that was adapted from that appendix. As with all the FARs, you can find it on the FAA web site. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Lee Van Dyke Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 11:27 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> A&P CHECKLIST HEY GROUP, Need your help again. I had a checklist for the items that need to inspected by the A&P. Does anybody have a link so I can get a copy of the checklist????? Lee Van Dyke Mesa AZ Lee@vandyke5.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 00:09:09 -0500 From: "Sean Caranna" Subject: Re: KR> KR-2S Bent Spars and AS504x To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001e01c510c0$fc12e870$6400a8c0@fservice1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Mark, Thanks! Now I think I have the concept down in my head. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" > > How do the ¼" strips Mark mentions bend the spar? After reading the question again, I may not have explained that sufficiently. What we're talking about here is bending the spar CAPS, by laminating thinner pieces together in a jig to get the bent shape, and then epoxying the caps together with vertical spacers like the plans call for, and then the plywood facing. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:10:32 -0600 From: "Ronald Metcalf" Subject: Re: KR> bending radius To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed With a few exceptions min. bend rad. for most materials is equal to the thickness of the metal. >>>>> This is only true for 4130 and thin alloys (50 thou or less). Most of the alli we work with (3 to 6mm) needs more, maybe 2x or 3x for 6061T6 and to 6x for 7075T6. Remember the effect of temperature - the winter conditions will render metal more brittle. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:51:39 +0200 From: Dubi Gefen Subject: KR> Certificated KR-2S list by FAA To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <000001c510f9$3a926160$8c07a8c0@privatevkzwc19> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Who know, were I can get/see the certificated list of KR-2S by FAA? Regards Dubi gefen ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 06:47:10 -0600 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Certificated KR-2S list by FAA To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050212064710.0085cb50@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:51 PM 2/12/05 +0200, you wrote: > Who know, were I can get/see the certificated list of KR-2S by FAA? > >Regards >Dubi gefen > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ try the following: http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*70492981!_h-www.landings.com/_landin gs/pages/search.html or: http://www.avweb.com/databases/ Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 04:54:24 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Green Subject: Re: KR> Certificated KR-2S list by FAA To: Dubi Gefen Cc: KRnet Message-ID: <20050212125424.47624.qmail@web81602.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If you are a member of AOPA, you can go to: "Info Resources/FAQ" then to: "Aviation Databases" Then to: "Aircraft registration numbers" Once you are at this page then enter "Model Name" use "Starts With" "KR" and also enter a desired "State". If you do not select a state there will be too many listed to pull up at one time, and if you use the "matches exactly" option on Model Name you will not get them all, because many are listed with different ways, for example "KR2S, KR 2S, KR-2S, KR-IIS, KRllS, KR 2S, KR2-S"....You get the idea on the different ways listred, that causes problems trying to get them all by only using Model Name "matches exactly". Hope that helps, RG Dubi Gefen wrote: Who know, were I can get/see the certificated list of KR-2S by FAA? Regards Dubi gefen _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 06:54:09 -0600 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Certificated KR-2S list by FAA To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050212065409.00855b30@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:51 PM 2/12/05 +0200, you wrote: > Who know, were I can get/see the certificated list of KR-2S by FAA? >Dubi gefen ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The following gets you directly to the KR2S page. 37 are listed. http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/acmain.htm Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 07:56:09 -0500 From: "Kenneth B. Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Certificated KR-2S list by FAA To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005901c51102$3a5a4b50$8d7ba8c0@oemcomputer> Here is the FAA web site: http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/acmain.htm Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dubi Gefen" To: Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 6:51 AM Subject: KR> Certificated KR-2S list by FAA > Who know, were I can get/see the certificated list of KR-2S by FAA? > > Regards > Dubi gefen > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 08:54:59 -0500 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> Certificated KR-2S list by FAA To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00b101c5110a$72507db0$0202a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hello Net I went into the site for fun and noted that entering model KR-2, I was not on the list. I finally entered Rand and found my self and 140 others. the KR-2 list has 965. That means at least 1105 KR aircraft are currently registered between the two locations. There might be others stashed in other spots on the data base. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:03:13 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Certificated KR-2S list by FAA To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <420E1AB1.000006.02444@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Does being on the list, mean that they are certified, or just that they are registered? See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:24:44 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Certificated KR-2S list by FAA To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001901c51117$0162cf60$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The FAA has the model listed many different ways. For example, mine is registered as model "Rand Robinson KR-2S" . There is no way to get one list with the FAA which list them all. You must search every model combo you van thing of. A lot of them are listed as model "John Doe KR-2S" etc. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 6:54 AM Subject: Re: KR> Certificated KR-2S list by FAA > At 01:51 PM 2/12/05 +0200, you wrote: > > Who know, were I can get/see the certificated list of KR-2S by FAA? > >Dubi gefen > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > The following gets you directly to the KR2S page. 37 are listed. > > http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/acmain.htm > > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:26:00 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Certificated KR-2S list by FAA To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002501c51117$3534cd20$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" That they are only registered. There is a notation stating airworthiness date. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:03 AM Subject: Re: KR> Certificated KR-2S list by FAA > Does being on the list, mean that they are certified, or just that > they are > registered? > > > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building > has expired. > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:05:40 -0800 From: "Bill Sadler" Subject: KR> (no subject) To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I switched search engines just checking if message are getting to list this is a test thank youi ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:33:49 -0800 From: "Bill Sadler" Subject: KR> bolt size KR To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" lOOKING FOR THE REAR SPAR BOLT SIZE on WAF TO ATTACH WINGS tHANKS bILL ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:35:22 -0800 From: "Bill Sadler" Subject: KR> KR no subject To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" testing testing ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:36:42 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> bolt size KR To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <420E4CBA.00000A.02444@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" AN-3, what else will fit? See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering -------Original Message------- LOOKING FOR THE REAR SPAR BOLT SIZE on WAF TO ATTACH WINGS ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:01:03 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> bolt size KR To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <018901c51135$330a5060$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bill Sadler wrote: > lOOKING FOR THE REAR SPAR BOLT SIZE on WAF TO ATTACH WINGS I don't know about your spars, but an AN3-20A works on mine, if you are talking about the length of bolt for the connection between inner and outer wing, if using "light" washers. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:00:18 -0600 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Certificated KR-2S list by FAA To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050212130018.0085a210@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:24 AM 2/12/05 -0600, you wrote: >The FAA has the model listed many different ways. For example, mine is >registered as model "Rand Robinson KR-2S" . There is no way to get one >list with the FAA which list them all. You must search every model >combo you van thing of. A lot of them are listed as model "John Doe >KR-2S" etc. Mark Jones (N886MJ) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Also, try looking for KR II, KR2, KR-2. And, try looking for KR* Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:06:09 -0500 From: wcrawfor@cmhc-schl.gc.ca Subject: RE: KR> C-GDPU has finally become a airplane today To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Brian, I have a video tape, the KR had 8 hours on it at the time, filmed both from the ground looking up and from inside the KR. I made a copy and sent it New Brunswick, another copy went out to western Canada. I haven't seen hide or tail of them since. In any event they are simple manoeuvres, wing-overs, Lazy eights, barrel Rolls, Slow Role and aileron roll, I have also done spins . Manoeuvres are fluid, as I don't have an inverted system, it is only a Continental 85F, without electrics, It is one of the best little aerobatic airplanes I've had the pleasure to fly in 34 years. My joints are too old to take any more G's. so everything is slow and lightly positive. On my way to the great white north (James Bay) for the next couple weeks. any further and you'll fall off the earth. ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:43:24 -0800 From: "Bill Sadler" Subject: KR> KR NO SUBJECT To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Just trying to get back on mylist this is just a test ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:10:51 +0200 From: "Ivan & Ilse Miller" Subject: Re: KR> vw reliability To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000001c5113d$f0535ec0$15b6ef9b@c7v3u0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Rich Thanks for the reply. What turbo are you using and what is the estimated weight penalty for turbo and piping? regards Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Seifert" To: "KRnet" Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 5:32 AM Subject: Re: KR> vw reliability > Unfortunately it all depends... 2180cc VW's are as reliable as any engine............................ ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:09:09 -0600 From: Eric Anderson Subject: KR> CG question re: a light KR2S To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I have been looking at my new plans for a couple of weeks, and thinking about building a 'simple' KR, as light as possible. First, is it conceivable that the CG would be forward enough with a KR2S built light to the following specs?: -1835 engine, hand start, no electrics, Great Plains mount -nose wheel. Second, which is generally lighter: plans-built or premolded turtledeck? -Eric Anderson ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:09:48 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> CG question re: a light KR2S To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <420E709C.000010.02444@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You do not have to be concerned about the balance as you can move the engine forward if you need to. I think that scratch built is lighter, if you are good at it. If you are not so good at it and have to do a lot of filling and re-work, then I think that the premolds are lighter. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering -------Original Message------- First, is it conceivable that the CG would be forward enough Second, which is generally lighter: plans-built or premolded turtledeck? ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:41:40 -0500 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> CG question re: a light KR2S To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050212.164208.3024.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think that premolds are lighter, Virg On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 16:09:48 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) "Dan Heath" writes: > You do not have to be concerned about the balance as you can move the > engine > forward if you need to. > > I think that scratch built is lighter, if you are good at it. If you > are not > so good at it and have to do a lot of filling and re-work, then I > think that > the premolds are lighter. > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for > building > has expired. > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > > -------Original Message------- > > First, is it conceivable that the CG would be forward enough > > Second, which is generally lighter: plans-built or premolded > turtledeck? > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:54:37 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> bolt size KR To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <01a501c5115e$35ec6510$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I forgot....my WAFs use only one bolt each. "Normal" KRs would use something considerably shorter, probably an AN3-5A instead. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:52:59 -0500 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> vw reliability To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <010b01c5115d$fc570800$0202a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original weight penalty for turbo and piping? The early KR-2 plans list the Turbo KR-2 as 50 pounds heaver. I'm using a turbo from an early ford (1987) that is oil cooled only. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 19:33:39 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> bolt size KR To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <420EA063.000029.02444@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" AN3-5A is what I have for ours. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering -------Original Message------- something considerably shorter, probably an AN3-5A instead. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:02:43 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR> bending radius To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050213010243.52833.qmail@web53005.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii According to my McDonnell Douglas Design Handbook deesign standard 6m39: .25 @ room temp anld- norm. cond 4130 "Dene Collett (SA)" wrote: Can someone give me the minimum bending radius for 1/8" 4130 plate (with and across the grain). _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:24:39 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR> CG question re: a light KR2S To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050213012439.49215.qmail@web53006.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Eric, Alot depends upon the builder, I built my own turtledeck, and although my fuselage was 3 inches wider than plans, my turtledeck weighed half as much as the RR pre-molded part. you can see how I constructed mine at: http://www.kr-builder.org/ScottCable/index.html My turtledeck isn't what you would call "plans built" because I changed the outer moldline shape and it's "hat-stiffened". Still, I'm very satisfied with the outcome. Eric Anderson wrote: which is generally lighter: plans-built or premolded turtledeck? Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 68 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================